From glumor at faza.ru  Sat Jul  1 09:06:14 2006
From: glumor at faza.ru (glumor@faza.ru)
Date: Sat Jul  1 09:09:00 2006
Subject: [Yak] Visit this sites!
Message-ID: <E1Fwg6w-0004nL-41@pqc85.pqcservice.net>


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From glumor at faza.ru  Sat Jul  1 09:18:58 2006
From: glumor at faza.ru (glumor@faza.ru)
Date: Sat Jul  1 09:21:32 2006
Subject: [Yak] Visit this sites!
Message-ID: <E1FwgJG-0001Um-Hh@pqc85.pqcservice.net>


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From glumor at faza.ru  Sat Jul  1 09:20:15 2006
From: glumor at faza.ru (glumor@faza.ru)
Date: Sat Jul  1 09:21:36 2006
Subject: [Yak] Visit this sites!
Message-ID: <E1FwgKV-0002Fh-SG@pqc85.pqcservice.net>


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From glumor at faza.ru  Sat Jul  1 11:13:54 2006
From: glumor at faza.ru (glumor@faza.ru)
Date: Sat Jul  1 11:14:20 2006
Subject: [Yak] Visit this sites!
Message-ID: <E1Fwi6U-0000Rb-Cp@pqc85.pqcservice.net>


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From xhefty at earthlink.net  Sat Jul  1 12:02:20 2006
From: xhefty at earthlink.net (Richard B. Clarke)
Date: Sat Jul  1 12:02:44 2006
Subject: [Yak] Way off topic:  Shimano 600 "Arabesque"
References: <008401c69963$6586c160$a2faa018@digitall2douiq>
Message-ID: <04ea01c69d30$1dc41aa0$6401a8c0@CONSULTIWN63E3>

> Anyone familiar with the Shimano 600 "Arabesque" groupset, aka 6200, aka
600
> EX?  I just picked up a road bike so equipped.  Fascinating details .

I'm not familiar with "Arabesque". But if I'm not mistaken Shimano 600 is
the  Ultegra Groupset.

No, I'm not considering putting the group on a folding bike, just
> curious.

 Why wouldn't you?

Richard Clarke
SRD (03)
NWT (00)





From lnewman at bresnan.net  Sat Jul  1 12:33:39 2006
From: lnewman at bresnan.net (Larry Newman)
Date: Sat Jul  1 12:30:52 2006
Subject: [Yak] Way off topic:  Shimano 600 "Arabesque"
In-Reply-To: <04ea01c69d30$1dc41aa0$6401a8c0@CONSULTIWN63E3>
References: <008401c69963$6586c160$a2faa018@digitall2douiq>
	<04ea01c69d30$1dc41aa0$6401a8c0@CONSULTIWN63E3>
Message-ID: <8C506B49-D8BA-4951-99C2-32733D0384AC@bresnan.net>

Yes. Ultegra replaced 600.
--  
Larry, Bozeman, MT
PR, NWT, and TT (formerly)

On Jul 1, 2006, at 11:02 AM, Richard B. Clarke wrote:

>> Anyone familiar with the Shimano 600 "Arabesque" groupset, aka  
>> 6200, aka
> 600
>> EX?  I just picked up a road bike so equipped.  Fascinating details .
>
> I'm not familiar with "Arabesque". But if I'm not mistaken Shimano  
> 600 is
> the  Ultegra Groupset.
>
> No, I'm not considering putting the group on a folding bike, just
>> curious.
>
>  Why wouldn't you?
>
> Richard Clarke
> SRD (03)
> NWT (00)
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak

From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  1 13:17:59 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Sat Jul  1 13:18:52 2006
Subject: [Yak] Spammer hijack
Message-ID: <20060701181759.24948.qmail@web34702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Looks like the yak list was hi-jacked by a spammer
nominally from Russia. Perhaps he/she thought the web
master would be gone over the long weekend. Hope
nobody opened those sites.
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CA
From deanwisleder at insightbb.com  Sat Jul  1 21:05:11 2006
From: deanwisleder at insightbb.com (Dean Wisleder)
Date: Sat Jul  1 21:05:41 2006
Subject: [Yak] Schwalbe Stelvio 20" tires
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F251FEFF28CE0C4DDECC6E6DB7D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <013501c69d7b$fca09b40$1adc10ac@DEANSLAPTOP>

David, it's interesting to me how my tire experiences are nearly the
opposite of yours.  I am approaching 6,400 miles on my Air Glide, and the
front tire is still the original Stelvio 406.  In the rear, I had to trash
the first Stelvio at about 1,000 miles because a nail in the tread exited
the sidewall.  The second Stelvio in the rear lasted over 3,000 miles before
the cord started peeking through the tread in a few spots.

I rode Primo Comets on my NWT for many thousands of miles.  I finally
decided to try something else because the Comets cut too easily.  Based on
my experience with Stelvios, I see no reason to ever go back to Comets.  I
have never ridden Avocet 406 tires, but others on this list speak highly of
the Fasgrip.  I plan to give them a try if I ever wear out my spare
Stelvios.

My brief experience with Conti Gran Prix tires lead me to the same
conclusion you came to--just too fragile.

Dean Wisleder
Springfield, IL

David in San Jose wrote:

I have gone through at least six 406 size Stelvios in five years.  The
Stelvios eventually develops a small cut in the tread, and I once had to
special order one while touring at a cost of almost $100.
I have never had a problem with the Avocet or Primo Comet tires though.


From rwoods at wenworld.com  Sat Jul  1 21:49:06 2006
From: rwoods at wenworld.com (Rufus Woods)
Date: Sat Jul  1 21:49:29 2006
Subject: [Yak] Air Friday Fenders
Message-ID: <469E99E9-6634-4F82-A987-5B1E93BA3121@wenworld.com>

I've got standard BF fenders for my Air Friday, but I'm looking for a  
better solution. I know some BF owners have had success with Freddy  
Fenders, but I'm wondering if anyone's using them on an AF?

Cheers

Rufus Woods
From bicycleflyer at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  1 21:52:42 2006
From: bicycleflyer at yahoo.com (Paul Patterson)
Date: Sat Jul  1 21:52:54 2006
Subject: [Yak] Cycling Plus story
Message-ID: <20060702025242.89184.qmail@web52114.mail.yahoo.com>

Just got the June 2006 issue of Cycling Plus from my local bookstore. For those of you not familiar this is a Brit publication that focuses primarily on Road bikes. Us roadies here in the USA that are disappointed with our local road bike coverage have discovered this great magazine from the other side of the Atlantic. Anyway there is an interesting review of BF Pocket Llama. The whole article is a review of four bikes for touring. The Llama did pretty well, but the clear favorite in this article is the Thorn Raven Tour equipped with a Rohloff 14 speed hub. Of course this is a British publication, so there is the inevitable comparison between the Brompton and BF. Nonetheless, the Llama did very well. 
   
  Paul in Cincy.

 		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Sun Jul  2 02:10:29 2006
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Sun Jul  2 05:29:55 2006
Subject: [Yak] Paris in the summer
In-Reply-To: <20060630032259.12828.qmail@web32008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060630032259.12828.qmail@web32008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44A77165.6090400@axelrod.plus.com>

I was there for a week a couple of weeks ago and I agree with this,
its a great place to cycle.  Its not calm and sedate and safe - it
*is* fast, exciting and fun.  I was surprised how small the city
is, its very practical to cycle anywhere in the city.  But they
are mad drivers - the bus/cycle lanes have an outer kerb in many
places so you are separated from the main carriageway but it doesn't
stop cars nipping down the bus lane at very high speed (so they don't
get caught I presume) and passing you at that speed with only inches to
spare.   You don't hear them coming because the traffic noise is so bad.
Then at junctions they cut you up at high speed to get into the kerbed
section of bus lane before you do.

Watch out for the motorbikes and scooters on the pavements/sidewalks.
Crazy, dangerous and fun.  Keep your wits about you but don't miss it.

andy

> I love riding in Paris.  August might be a bit uncomfortable (rains a
> lot in August), but other than that, no biggee.
> 
> There are more  accomodation for bikes than you might think - you can
> take the bus lanes (marked bus/bicycle), for one thing.
> 
> You do have to watch out for the mad taxis and motorcyclists that
> ignore the special lanes, and, of course, the buses.
> 
> But, it's a great way to get around the city - better than the metro,
> because you can connect the dots on the surface, instead of just
> popping up from a gerbil hole, wondering where the heck you are and
> which direction you're facing.
> 
> Ride smart, be predictable, and keep your eyes open, and you'll do
> fine.  Good advice anywhere, really.
> 
> Enjoy!!
> 
> rickb ----- Red Sat-R-Day/Green Gnu 
> ------------------------------------------- A mind is not a vessel to
> be filled, it is a fire to be ignited. -- Plutarch
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Chang <chastev67@hotmail.com>
>  To: yak@bikefriday.com Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:38:01 PM 
> Subject: [Yak] Paris in the summer
> 
> 
> I have the fortune of going to Paris in August (wish I could have
> worked it out for July during the Tour, but still very happy to go).
> Does anyone here have advice/tips/suggestions regarding cycling
> within the city limits of Paris?  I am to receive my PRPro on Friday
> (did BF work it out that way?) and would love to be able to get in my
> usual 25-30 mile training ride to start my day while in Paris.  Are
> there areas similar to Central Park in NYC or the lakefront in
> Chicago that are easily biked to and from?
> 
> Would love as much input as possible.
> 
> Keep biking, Steve
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Yak mailing list 
> Yak@bikefriday.com http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak 
> _______________________________________________ Yak mailing list 
> Yak@bikefriday.com http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
> 
> 


From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Sun Jul  2 02:15:03 2006
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Sun Jul  2 05:29:56 2006
Subject: [Yak] Paris in August
In-Reply-To: <20060629204242.34649.qmail@web34712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060629204242.34649.qmail@web34712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44A77277.9040706@axelrod.plus.com>

A friend of mine who lives there does say its unbearably
hot and parisiens leave the city at that time..

andy

> I thought France was closed for the month of August.
> Chuck Voigtsberger
> Ventura CA
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
> 
> 


From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Sun Jul  2 02:31:51 2006
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Sun Jul  2 05:29:56 2006
Subject: [Yak] Paris in the summer
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060629121709.08251e60@pop.spamcop.net>
References: <BAY106-F34286365C7F43C1E08782AB07C0@phx.gbl>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20060629121709.08251e60@pop.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <44A77667.20206@axelrod.plus.com>

John S. Allen wrote:

> At 22:38 6/28/2006, Steve Chang wrote:
> 
>> I have the fortune of going to Paris in August (wish I could have 
>> worked it out for July during the Tour, but still very happy to go).  
>> Does anyone here have advice/tips/suggestions regarding cycling within 
>> the city limits of Paris?  I am to receive my PRPro on Friday (did BF 
>> work it out that way?) and would love to be able to get in my usual 
>> 25-30 mile training ride to start my day while in Paris.  Are there 
>> areas similar to Central Park in NYC or the lakefront in Chicago that 
>> are easily biked to and from?

I think what you have to be prepared for is a different attitude to
bikes in Europe.  I have never met (well not often) any aggravation
over biking in the US so don't interpret what I'm going to say this way,
but the notion that a bike is something for the park or that you drive
to the bike park to cycle, just like the idea that walking is not
possible seems common in the US.  Whereas in Europe bikes can be much
more part of the fabric of life.  Of course both approaches are
in both places and these are sweeping generalisations.  You will find
the attitudes to public and private space very different and its
interesting that this is so (well it is to me) - and this impacts
on transport, buildings and general lifestyle.  Parks tend to be smaller 
but you get a good mixture of peds, cycles and cars on the roads.
Both sides of the atlantic have things to contribute, I'm just
pointing out interesting differences of attitude.  I enjoy cycling in 
cities everywhere and have never met problems in US cities - in fact
we got the idea of cycle cops (a great idea) from the US.

But for a long run, you need to get out of the cities in Europe - there
are loads of nice cycle-runs but those in cities are not of the length
you describe.

andy





From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Sun Jul  2 11:36:41 2006
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Sun Jul  2 11:36:57 2006
Subject: [Yak] what tires and urgent sourcing UK
Message-ID: <44A7F619.4000409@axelrod.plus.com>

!"?***^ cattle grids.  Bet you don't have those in
the US.  It was a lovely ride in Skype around the
top "wing" but there was this cattle grid and it was
right at the bottom and I needed the momentum to get
up the other side, so ...... a few minutes later there was
a distinct ping sound and a split appeared on the sidewall
of the rear tyre - I think its the metal reinforcing has
come through.  Ah well.

So they are Comet Primo 20 x 1.75 and I need to replace them
NOW because next weekend I'm off to Austria.

So what to replace them with and where to get them in a hurry.

I think they don't make these paricular tires/sizes now, so
I'm loking for similar tires similar width, similar no-tread
(they are slicks) or near no-tread.

I found these on the web

Schwalbe Marathon Slick 20 x 1.35

bu they're narrower (1.35 as compared to 1.75).  Maybe that doesn't
make much difference. I don't know.  What are my fast options please.
I need to order them Monday, hopefully get them Tuesday and get them
put on by Friday (the day not the bike ;-) ) - I plan to get my bike
shop to do it because I need my bottom bracket checking also as its
clicking, so time is short (they are pretty busy).

andy
From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Sun Jul  2 11:49:34 2006
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Sun Jul  2 11:49:55 2006
Subject: [Yak] what tires and urgent sourcing UK correction
In-Reply-To: <44A7F619.4000409@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <44A7F619.4000409@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <44A7F91E.7010907@axelrod.plus.com>

Andy Heath wrote:

> !"?***^ cattle grids.  Bet you don't have those in
> the US.  It was a lovely ride in Skype around the

of course I meant Skye (it was a real not a virtual ride ;-) ).

andy


> top "wing" but there was this cattle grid and it was
> right at the bottom and I needed the momentum to get
> up the other side, so ...... a few minutes later there was
> a distinct ping sound and a split appeared on the sidewall
> of the rear tyre - I think its the metal reinforcing has
> come through.  Ah well.
> 
> So they are Comet Primo 20 x 1.75 and I need to replace them
> NOW because next weekend I'm off to Austria.
> 
> So what to replace them with and where to get them in a hurry.
> 
> I think they don't make these paricular tires/sizes now, so
> I'm loking for similar tires similar width, similar no-tread
> (they are slicks) or near no-tread.
> 
> I found these on the web
> 
> Schwalbe Marathon Slick 20 x 1.35
> 
> bu they're narrower (1.35 as compared to 1.75).  Maybe that doesn't
> make much difference. I don't know.  What are my fast options please.
> I need to order them Monday, hopefully get them Tuesday and get them
> put on by Friday (the day not the bike ;-) ) - I plan to get my bike
> shop to do it because I need my bottom bracket checking also as its
> clicking, so time is short (they are pretty busy).
> 
> andy
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
> 
> 

From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  2 14:20:22 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Sun Jul  2 14:20:37 2006
Subject: [Yak] Cattle guards and cut tires
Message-ID: <20060702192022.58587.qmail@web34703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Cattle guards exist all over the western U.S.,
including free range cattle where it is not unusual to
encounter cattle standing in the middle of the road.
Heading up into the Big Horn Mountains in Wyoming, we
came upon a cattle drive heading up to the high
country for summer forage. It was complete with
cowboys on horseback. That was the first cattle move I
had seen using the road. Any other time I had seen
cattle drives they were moving cross country and might
cross the road, but these were taking the road to the
high pasture. The drovers accommodatingly moved the
herd over to one side so we could pass then as we were
traveling faster than they.

On a different topic, when I get cuts in the carcass
of my Primo Comets, I fill the cut with silicone
adhesive. It sticks and fills the cut. I read
somewhere that another rider lets enough air out so
that the edges come together and uses crazy glue to
weld the cut shut. I don't know that either practice
helps extend longevity, but it makes me feel better.
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CA
From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Sun Jul  2 14:46:29 2006
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Sun Jul  2 14:46:36 2006
Subject: [Yak] Cattle guards and cut tires
In-Reply-To: <20060702192022.58587.qmail@web34703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060702192022.58587.qmail@web34703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44A82295.3090702@axelrod.plus.com>


> On a different topic, when I get cuts in the carcass
> of my Primo Comets, I fill the cut with silicone
> adhesive. It sticks and fills the cut. I read
> somewhere that another rider lets enough air out so
> that the edges come together and uses crazy glue to
> weld the cut shut. I don't know that either practice

maybe a good idea.  I have cuts on the surface of my
front tire like that but I don't worry about them.

I'm not sure that this is a cut like that - along the side
wall is a criss cross pattern buried inside the tire - I think
its metal wire or something used in the tire
and the cut is along the line of
one spar of that pattern - and there was a distinct ping
sound - so I think its the metal wire come through.
Also, its not very nice to ride on because you can feel/hear it
with every turn of the wheel - thump, thump, thump.

I'm presuming what happened is that with load being placed on
such a small area going over the grid (they were flat bars not
round ones so the tire would go in the gap between a little and
all the weight would be on two bar edges for a time - and that
would repeat as the tire crossed over the grid bars) the tire
compressed more than it liked to (like what they call a pinch flat).
I'm sure it was ready to go anyway.

andy

> helps extend longevity, but it makes me feel better.
> Chuck Voigtsberger
> Ventura CA
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
> 
> 

From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Mon Jul  3 03:33:21 2006
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Mon Jul  3 03:33:33 2006
Subject: [Yak] mixing front and rear tires NWT
Message-ID: <44A8D651.5080008@axelrod.plus.com>

Is there any disadvantage to one kind of tire on the
rear and one on the front ?
I'm undecided whether to get Schwalbe Marathon 20x1.75 or
Schwalbe Marathon Slick 20x1.35 and I just thought I could
just get one on the rear to see what the ride feels like
(thr front is ok for a bit) then get another later or
if I don't like it go for 2 of the other kind.

andy
From Dustypence at aol.com  Mon Jul  3 08:57:33 2006
From: Dustypence at aol.com (Dustypence@aol.com)
Date: Mon Jul  3 08:58:05 2006
Subject: [Yak] Cattle guards and cut tires
Message-ID: <3b2.487509a.31da7c4d@aol.com>


In a message dated 7/2/06 1:20:53 PM, charles_e_voigtsberger@yahoo.com 
writes:


> Cattle guards exist all over the western U.S.,
> including free range cattle where it is not unusual to
> encounter cattle standing in the middle of the road.
> 

And, as we have discussed previously in these pages, in the U.S. we also have 
buffalo guards, which are wider than cattle guards. Some of the readers of 
these pages claime to ride blithely over the big buffalo guards. I do so 
gingerly on an upright bike--on my recumbent, I get off and walk! And one writer to 
these pages even sent us a delightful picture of his bike friday perched on 
camel guards! Very entertaining! (For me, anyway; perhaps out here in the rural 
west we are easily entertained, but I loved it.)

And a Happy Independence Day to everyone!
From faunt at panix.com  Mon Jul  3 12:11:23 2006
From: faunt at panix.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604)
Date: Mon Jul  3 12:12:44 2006
Subject: [Yak] Cattle guards
In-Reply-To: <20060703170006.BB404194631@server1.bikefriday.com>
	(yak-request@bikefriday.com)
References: <20060703170006.BB404194631@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <200607031711.k63HBNY05381@panix1.panix.com>

Not really on topic, but- 

In Port Blair, Andaman Islands, India, the main post office in the
center of town has a cattleguard, since cattle wander all over the
place.

73, doug
From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  3 15:55:59 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Mon Jul  3 15:58:06 2006
Subject: [Yak] RAAM BF team
Message-ID: <B6896B4D-6C36-4F63-983A-A091DC8B0F38@yahoo.com>

Lon and I were tooling about on our bikes here in Wisconsin, getting  
ready for Wisconsin Camp Aug 12-19 (anyone coming?) and floated the  
idea of a Bike Friday RAAM Corporate team, 8 people. Each rider would  
have to do 50 miles a day at a hammering pace. We could have 4 guys  
and 4 gals. The biggest logistical hurdle would be to get a support  
team who would be willing to be counted on. Maybe we could have the  
PACTOUR van and a BF vehicle.
It's just an idea, but they all start somewhere...

Take a look at the coverage here for inspiration - and tell me if  
there are any takers!

RAAM on the Weather Channel ? Next week!

Tune your TVs and Tivo's into the Weather Channel next week!

The Race Across America 2006 will be featured as part of the Weather
Channel's "Road Crew" with Jeff Mielcarz.

Four segments will air next week: July 5, 6, 8, and 9, 2006.

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 -  Evening Edition (9 p.m.-11 p.m. EST)
Thursday, July 6, 2006 -  Evening Edition (9 p.m.-11 p.m. EST)
Saturday, July 8, 2006 -  Weekend View (7 a.m.-11 a.m. EST)
Sunday, July 9, 2006 -  Weekend View (7 a.m.-11 a.m. EST)


Lynette Chiang
Bike Friday Adventurette
Recent adventure: http://www.bikefriday.com/route66
http://www.galfromdownunder.com
Cell: 541-513-7711



From 9gturns at xmission.com  Mon Jul  3 16:36:19 2006
From: 9gturns at xmission.com (miles2go)
Date: Mon Jul  3 16:40:16 2006
Subject: [Yak] Back from Switzerland
References: <20060607170015.610EE1945E5@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <006801c69ee8$ba5769d0$0200a8c0@D8400>

Nancy and I just got back from a month of exploring Switzerland on our NWTs. 
In late last night after 19 hours of Hotel to front door travel from Zurich.

The bikes did well and the trailers handled superbly even over many miles of 
mtb double track and down blistering descents...loaded to the hilt, all the 
while.

My rig weighed over 112 pounds.  I took over 3,500 photos in RAW format. 
http://miles2go.crazyguyonabike.com  with much more to come.

In short, fantastic time, fantastic place, people and pastries.

For now, off to a BBQ trying our best to ignore the jet lag.


Cheers,

Ron 

From witkasf at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  4 00:08:27 2006
From: witkasf at yahoo.com (Susan Witka)
Date: Tue Jul  4 00:08:51 2006
Subject: [Yak] Remove me from Mailing List please
Message-ID: <20060704050827.13463.qmail@web30310.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


 
 		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
From j.vanwaert at inter.nl.net  Tue Jul  4 00:16:24 2006
From: j.vanwaert at inter.nl.net (Joost van Waert)
Date: Tue Jul  4 00:21:36 2006
Subject: [Yak] RE: mixing front and rear tires
Message-ID: <f05111b00c0cfa94482d2@[217.149.217.10]>

Andy Heath wrote:
Is there any disadvantage to one kind of tire on the rear and one on the front?

The rear tire takes more weight and wears faster; that would be a 
good argument to put a wider tire on the rear.
On a longer trip (longer than two or three weeks) I prefer same size 
tires, as I can exchange them halfway through the trip.
But then, you can also do that with different size tires.
Joost van Waert, The Netherlands
From mrjgrades at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  4 03:43:20 2006
From: mrjgrades at yahoo.com (Joe Imms)
Date: Tue Jul  4 03:43:45 2006
Subject: [Yak] Tires and Tubes sizing
Message-ID: <20060704084320.62505.qmail@web56305.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

   I will take my NWT on vacation for the first time
this July.  Mostly city riding.   I intend to take
along a spare tire and inner tube as well.  Since I
have a recumbent (406 front/559 rear) and the NWT I
seem to have a varied collection of extra tires and
tubes (presta and schrader).  Before spending any more
money on new tires and tubes I want to use the ones I
have laying around.  Would this setup on the rear
wheel be okay:

Rim:  Sun CR18
Tire:  Vredestein S-Lick 20 x 1.3
Tube:  Sized for 20 X 1.75 " and above.

Regards,
Joseph

 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From dvancleve at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  4 09:00:44 2006
From: dvancleve at yahoo.com (Doug Van Cleve)
Date: Tue Jul  4 09:01:09 2006
Subject: [Yak] Tires and Tubes sizing
In-Reply-To: <20060704084320.62505.qmail@web56305.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060704140044.64015.qmail@web50401.mail.yahoo.com>

Joe,
 
You might need to be a bit carefull getting the tight part of the bead on the rim since that tube is on the large side for the tire but they should work fine together on that width rim.
 
Doug


----- Original Message ----
From: Joe Imms <mrjgrades@yahoo.com>
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 4, 2006 1:43:20 AM
Subject: [Yak] Tires and Tubes sizing


I will take my NWT on vacation for the first time
this July.  Mostly city riding.   I intend to take
along a spare tire and inner tube as well.  Since I
have a recumbent (406 front/559 rear) and the NWT I
seem to have a varied collection of extra tires and
tubes (presta and schrader).  Before spending any more
money on new tires and tubes I want to use the ones I
have laying around.  Would this setup on the rear
wheel be okay:

Rim:  Sun CR18
Tire:  Vredestein S-Lick 20 x 1.3
Tube:  Sized for 20 X 1.75 " and above.

Regards,
Joseph



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
From chastev67 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  4 12:53:56 2006
From: chastev67 at hotmail.com (Steve Chang)
Date: Tue Jul  4 12:54:22 2006
Subject: [Yak] Still waiting for UPS......
Message-ID: <BAY106-F44BD45AEF070393376DF0B0710@phx.gbl>

Has anyone else had issues with the delivery of their bike?  UPS was to 
deliver my new bike on 30 June, but it was delayed until 3 July because of 
weather (despite their insinuation that nothing will stop their deliveries 
as per their TV commercial in which they deliver goods to the remote and 
very snowy Irish countryside).  Then, they claim that my doorman wasn't 
around to sign for the bike despite the fact that he accepted over two dozen 
packages for the building at the time that he supposedly wasn't there.....I 
went through the entire list of packages from UPS which included things as 
pricey as fax machines and laptop computers.

I've tried to get UPS to explain the issue, but they cannot, and I still sit 
here waiting for the bike!!!  Very frustrating......

Steve


From Dustypence at aol.com  Tue Jul  4 13:10:47 2006
From: Dustypence at aol.com (Dustypence@aol.com)
Date: Tue Jul  4 13:11:25 2006
Subject: [Yak] Still waiting for UPS......
Message-ID: <497.4a634bc.31dc0927@aol.com>

Sounds like bad luck or one bad delivery dude to me; UPS has always been an 
excellent delivery service in my experience, both business and residential. Now 
DHL/Airborne, thats another story!

From rickbsgu at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  4 14:43:45 2006
From: rickbsgu at yahoo.com (Rick Berger)
Date: Tue Jul  4 14:44:01 2006
Subject: [Yak] Still waiting for UPS......
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F44BD45AEF070393376DF0B0710@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20060704194345.97671.qmail@web32009.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I've had  terrible experiences with UPS.

I use FedEx.

rickb
Green Gnu/Red Sat-R-Day
 -------------------------------------------------------
A mind is not a vessel to be filled,
it is a fire to be ignited.
  -- Plutarch

----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Chang <chastev67@hotmail.com>
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 4, 2006 12:53:56 PM
Subject: [Yak] Still waiting for UPS......

Has anyone else had issues with the delivery of their bike?  UPS was to 
deliver my new bike on 30 June, but it was delayed until 3 July because of 
weather (despite their insinuation that nothing will stop their deliveries 
as per their TV commercial in which they deliver goods to the remote and 
very snowy Irish countryside).  Then, they claim that my doorman wasn't 
around to sign for the bike despite the fact that he accepted over two dozen 
packages for the building at the time that he supposedly wasn't there.....I 
went through the entire list of packages from UPS which included things as 
pricey as fax machines and laptop computers.

I've tried to get UPS to explain the issue, but they cannot, and I still sit 
here waiting for the bike!!!  Very frustrating......

Steve


_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak




From waranoid at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  4 15:07:18 2006
From: waranoid at yahoo.com (Marc Plum)
Date: Tue Jul  4 15:09:14 2006
Subject: [Yak] Still waiting for UPS......
In-Reply-To: <20060704194345.97671.qmail@web32009.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060704194345.97671.qmail@web32009.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44AACA76.6040107@yahoo.com>

Well, there was one large apartment complex I lived in, where the UPS 
guy couldn't be bothered to buzz individual apartments.  He'd run in 
without the package, pin the attempted delivery notice to a bulletin 
board in the foyer, and run out again.  Your only hope of getting a 
package was to be there waiting for him.  Very annoying.  Usually, 
though, they aren't that bad, and I don't blame Bike Friday for using them.

Marc
From bradley62371-bikefriday at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  4 16:42:37 2006
From: bradley62371-bikefriday at yahoo.com (Brad Swanlund)
Date: Tue Jul  4 16:43:01 2006
Subject: [Yak] Still waiting for UPS......
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F44BD45AEF070393376DF0B0710@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY106-F44BD45AEF070393376DF0B0710@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <30A6CFBB-417F-46F6-859B-48F55678C9E8@yahoo.com>

I had a bike shipped to me via UPS (not a Bike Friday). It was an  
oversized package. It was days late. I called them each day and they  
said it was on the truck for delivery. Even the warehouse manager  
claimed it was on the truck. Finally I spoke to the night manager. It  
was under a conveyer belt, and had been for days. It was never  
scanned at the local warehouse. The night guy brought it out in his  
personal vehicle within an hour of speaking to him. What really got  
to me with this experience was that I was blatantly lied to several  
times.

Brad Swanlund
bradley62371-bikefriday@yahoo.com
http://www.purpleflowers.us/



On Jul 4, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Steve Chang wrote:

> Has anyone else had issues with the delivery of their bike?  UPS  
> was to deliver my new bike on 30 June, but it was delayed until 3  
> July because of weather (despite their insinuation that nothing  
> will stop their deliveries as per their TV commercial in which they  
> deliver goods to the remote and very snowy Irish countryside).   
> Then, they claim that my doorman wasn't around to sign for the bike  
> despite the fact that he accepted over two dozen packages for the  
> building at the time that he supposedly wasn't there.....I went  
> through the entire list of packages from UPS which included things  
> as pricey as fax machines and laptop computers.
>
> I've tried to get UPS to explain the issue, but they cannot, and I  
> still sit here waiting for the bike!!!  Very frustrating......
>
> Steve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak

From BradMiter at earthlink.net  Tue Jul  4 16:53:23 2006
From: BradMiter at earthlink.net (Bradford Miter)
Date: Tue Jul  4 16:53:39 2006
Subject: [Yak] Still waiting for UPS......
In-Reply-To: <30A6CFBB-417F-46F6-859B-48F55678C9E8@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <008601c69fb4$45991db0$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>

I had a UPS experience that required my intervention.  Somehow a wrong zip
code was placed on a package and for about 7 or 8 days it was bounced back
and forth between Cincinnati and Dayton (Ohio).  I live in Xenia, close to
Dayton but UPS serviced out of Springfield, OH.  I was tracking this using
the UPS online service and I finally called one of the two offices and the
situation was corrected immediately.  I'll bet it was the same two 'dumb'
individuals shipping the package back and forth each day.  However, the
problem solver seem to be right on the ball.

Brad Miter

-----Original Message-----
From: yak-bounces@bikefriday.com [mailto:yak-bounces@bikefriday.com] On
Behalf Of Brad Swanlund
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 5:43 PM
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Subject: Re: [Yak] Still waiting for UPS......


I had a bike shipped to me via UPS (not a Bike Friday). It was an  
oversized package. It was days late. I called them each day and they  
said it was on the truck for delivery. Even the warehouse manager  
claimed it was on the truck. Finally I spoke to the night manager. It  
was under a conveyer belt, and had been for days. It was never  
scanned at the local warehouse. The night guy brought it out in his  
personal vehicle within an hour of speaking to him. What really got  
to me with this experience was that I was blatantly lied to several  
times.

Brad Swanlund
bradley62371-bikefriday@yahoo.com
http://www.purpleflowers.us/



On Jul 4, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Steve Chang wrote:

> Has anyone else had issues with the delivery of their bike?  UPS  
> was to deliver my new bike on 30 June, but it was delayed until 3  
> July because of weather (despite their insinuation that nothing  
> will stop their deliveries as per their TV commercial in which they  
> deliver goods to the remote and very snowy Irish countryside).   
> Then, they claim that my doorman wasn't around to sign for the bike  
> despite the fact that he accepted over two dozen packages for the  
> building at the time that he supposedly wasn't there.....I went  
> through the entire list of packages from UPS which included things  
> as pricey as fax machines and laptop computers.
>
> I've tried to get UPS to explain the issue, but they cannot, and I  
> still sit here waiting for the bike!!!  Very frustrating......
>
> Steve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak

_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak

From Jdayrochbike at aol.com  Tue Jul  4 18:31:00 2006
From: Jdayrochbike at aol.com (Jdayrochbike@aol.com)
Date: Tue Jul  4 18:31:20 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: mixing front and rear tires
Message-ID: <37a.5504155.31dc5434@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 7/4/2006 12:01:44 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
yak-request@bikefriday.com writes:

Andy  Heath wrote:
Is there any disadvantage to one kind of tire on the rear and  one on the 
front?
I do exactly that on my Waterford road bike...a 23 or 25 in the front and a  
28 in the back.  It seems to perform about the same as when I have 23's on  
both front and back.  Both tires are the same -- Continental Ultra  Gatorskins.  
I use identical Stelvios on my Friday.  However, the 20  inch Sun rims are a 
lot tougher than the 700's and I am a big guy.
 






John  Day
Rochester, Illinois 
From alex at phred.org  Tue Jul  4 19:14:57 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue Jul  4 19:15:22 2006
Subject: [Yak] Still waiting for UPS......
In-Reply-To: <20060704194345.97671.qmail@web32009.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060704194345.97671.qmail@web32009.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060704171311.Q2175@phred.org>

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006, Rick Berger wrote:
> I've had  terrible experiences with UPS.
>
> I use FedEx.

It really all depends on your local delivery person.  I used to feel
the same way as you, but I currently have a bad FedEx delivery person
and now I dislike FedEx.  The current delivery person often lies and
reports that they delivered the package on the day that it was due,
then in fact delivers it the next day.  I report this every time that
it happens, but no one seems to really care.

It sucks having the package be delayed, but hopefully you'll have it
tomorrow.  I know how frustrating it can be to have misleading
delivery information.

alex
From danaring11 at mchsi.com  Tue Jul  4 20:32:16 2006
From: danaring11 at mchsi.com (Daniel A. Ring)
Date: Tue Jul  4 20:32:33 2006
Subject: [Yak] Stelvio Tires
Message-ID: <44AB16A0.6020608@mchsi.com>

I just completed a 450 mile tour across Iowa and into Nebraska with all 
of my camping gear, about 40 pounds, added to my NWT (I weight about 180 
pounds).  I used my Stelvio Dual Compound, 406, 120 pound/sq. in. 
tires.  No problems.  Very smooth riding.  These tires are the same 
width as my 700X28c tires that I used to tour with under the same 
conditions, on my other bike.  I have not had a problem with the Stelvio 
tires.  These tires had about 400 miles on them before this trip.  They 
show very little wear.  I am very pleased with them. 

Please note that I also took another set of tires with me which were 
wider, just in case.  I have never had a tire go bad in front of a 
bicycle shop,  and I travel self contained and by myself.

I appreciate the note from Schwalbe that these Stelvio tires are not 
designed for  fully loaded touring.  I was probably pushing my luck, but 
what a good ride.  In my opinion, a very good tire.

Ride strong.

Dan Ring
From xhefty at earthlink.net  Tue Jul  4 21:38:45 2006
From: xhefty at earthlink.net (Richard B. Clarke)
Date: Tue Jul  4 21:39:32 2006
Subject: [Yak] Stelvio Tires
References: <44AB16A0.6020608@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <06fd01c69fdc$23850720$6401a8c0@CONSULTIWN63E3>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel A. Ring" <danaring11@mchsi.com>
> I just completed a 450 mile tour across Iowa and into Nebraska with all
> of my camping gear, about 40 pounds, added to my NWT (I weight about 180
> pounds).  I used my Stelvio Dual Compound, 406, 120 pound/sq. in.
> tires.  No problems.

I too use Stelvios on my NWT and I have not had any problems or punctures
(Knock on Wood). I've also used them on my other bikes. They are a very
robust tire in my opinion. I think that the secret to the Stelvio is to keep
tire properly inflated at 120 psi. If you do this you will be ok. for fast
rides or light touring.

Richard Clarke
NWT (00)
SRD (03)




From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Tue Jul  4 21:20:02 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Tue Jul  4 22:14:40 2006
Subject: [Yak] Tires and Tubes sizing
In-Reply-To: <20060704084320.62505.qmail@web56305.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <20060704084320.62505.qmail@web56305.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060704221843.0632cb60@pop.spamcop.net>

At 04:43 7/4/2006, Joe Imms wrote:
>    I will take my NWT on vacation for the first time
>this July.  Mostly city riding.   I intend to take
>along a spare tire and inner tube as well.  Since I
>have a recumbent (406 front/559 rear) and the NWT I
>seem to have a varied collection of extra tires and
>tubes (presta and schrader).  Before spending any more
>money on new tires and tubes I want to use the ones I
>have laying around.  Would this setup on the rear
>wheel be okay:
>
>Rim:  Sun CR18
>Tire:  Vredestein S-Lick 20 x 1.3
>Tube:  Sized for 20 X 1.75 " and above.

The tube might be too wide and get folded inside the tire. I suggest 
a narrower tube, or at least make sure you don't have a problem 
(install, inflate, leave for a day, deflate and remove the tube and 
look for pleats).

John S. Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com (replace " *at* " with "@")

http://www.bikexprt.com/ 
From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Tue Jul  4 21:23:06 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Tue Jul  4 22:14:43 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: mixing front and rear tires
In-Reply-To: <37a.5504155.31dc5434@aol.com>
References: <37a.5504155.31dc5434@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060704222142.062acaf0@pop.spamcop.net>

At 19:31 7/4/2006, Jdayrochbike@aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 7/4/2006 12:01:44 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>yak-request@bikefriday.com writes:
>
>Andy  Heath wrote:
>Is there any disadvantage to one kind of tire on the rear and  one on the
>front?
>I do exactly that on my Waterford road bike...a 23 or 25 in the front and a
>28 in the back.  It seems to perform about the same as when I have 23's on
>both front and back.  Both tires are the same -- Continental 
>Ultra  Gatorskins.
>I use identical Stelvios on my Friday.  However, the 20  inch Sun rims are a
>lot tougher than the 700's and I am a big guy.

My friend Sheldon Brown, who is very knowledgeable about such things, 
prefers a wider tire on the front of his MTB, and with lower 
pressure. for more traction in corners -- so the rear will skid out first.

John S. Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com (replace " *at* " with "@")

http://www.bikexprt.com/  
From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  4 22:48:20 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Tue Jul  4 22:49:54 2006
Subject: [Yak] UPS delivery
Message-ID: <20060705034820.75803.qmail@web34711.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am sure that like any large company, UPS service
depends a great deal upon the individual performing
the service. I had a business in a downtown area for
25 years and had the same UPS driver for almost that
entire time. He was superb and I only had one instance
in 25 years' of almost daily deliveries where a
package was misdirected and that was because of an
incorrect zip code. I wish I could say that our
service that we delivered was as reliable and
dependable as UPS. We didn't always get on base every
time we came up to bat even though it was our
intention to hit a home run every time. We could
always tell when there was a substitute driver on and
not just because a different guy walked in the door.
Of course, delivery would always be later and
sometimes the driver would be back a second time with
more packages. So, I would suggest that your problem
is more due to local management and/or the local
driver than any over all failure by UPS as a company. 
I wish I could say I was as reliable as they have been
for me. Just so we are clear, I don't own stock in the
company or even know anyone connected with the company
other than our long time driver, but I have been away
from my business for seven years now, so even that
connection is not there. I still use them for personal
shipping.
Sorry for being so long winded.
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CA
From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  4 23:03:32 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Tue Jul  4 23:04:49 2006
Subject: [Yak] BF on Craigslist NY
Message-ID: <D26A7F0B-0763-4DBD-9B50-79153FAF658A@yahoo.com>

I can't resist it:
there's a huge bargain on Craigslist NY for a 10 year old, $200 BF  
with the suitcase.
Take a look
It sounds like a clunker, but for those who are hanging around  
waiting for a sub-$300 BF (in your dreams), here's your chance.
Or maybe it's actually a Raleigh or something and she is confused...
How did I know about this? I have a Google alert set up for 'Bike  
Friday' and 'folding bike'.
It reels in an interesting cyber tid-bit almost every second or third  
day!
Lynette

Bike Friday Adventurette
Recent adventure: http://www.bikefriday.com/route66
http://www.galfromdownunder.com
Cell: 541-513-7711



From goltermann at comcast.net  Wed Jul  5 11:41:52 2006
From: goltermann at comcast.net (Wilbur Goltermann Jr.)
Date: Wed Jul  5 11:44:16 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re:  Still waiting for UPS......
Message-ID: <4604B14E-11A9-4804-A67A-B7128A753F3D@comcast.net>

Steve,

I haven't had more trouble with UPS than with any other carrier.  I  
have found that all of them (UPS, FedEx, etc) are all fairly  
reliable, but all have their occasional problems.

The only shipment problem I've had recently was a couple of small  
packages shipped to me from buy.com via FedEx, and though it took  
almost two weeks and a number of phone calls to resolve the problem,  
it actually turned out to be a screw-up of buy.com and not of FedEx.

I'm sure you will have it resolved soon, if not by now.

Sincerely,




Wilbur Goltermann

From waranoid at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  5 19:41:59 2006
From: waranoid at yahoo.com (Marc Plum)
Date: Wed Jul  5 19:42:29 2006
Subject: [Yak] BF on Craigslist NY
In-Reply-To: <D26A7F0B-0763-4DBD-9B50-79153FAF658A@yahoo.com>
References: <D26A7F0B-0763-4DBD-9B50-79153FAF658A@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44AC5C57.5080705@yahoo.com>

Checked out the listing just out of curiosity.  The line about "you 
can't test ride it because the tires are flat" sounds pretty lame. :)  
Who knows, though, maybe a good fixer upper.

Marc

Lynette Chiang wrote:

> I can't resist it:
> there's a huge bargain on Craigslist NY for a 10 year old, $200 BF  
> with the suitcase.
> Take a look
> It sounds like a clunker, but for those who are hanging around  
> waiting for a sub-$300 BF (in your dreams), here's your chance.
> Or maybe it's actually a Raleigh or something and she is confused...
> . . .

From eneilson83 at gmail.com  Thu Jul  6 10:43:09 2006
From: eneilson83 at gmail.com (Elizabeth Neilson)
Date: Thu Jul  6 10:43:58 2006
Subject: [Yak] moving to hong kong
Message-ID: <697ddcdf0607060843k31d3236tb44f4ccc70e8174d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

This is my first try at this.
I'll be quick:

I'm moving to Hong Kong, want a collapsable bike for 1000ish US dollars!
Love road bikes, may have to buckle down to a touring bike for the realities
of Hong Kong bike commuting (and the realities of my pocketbook, which
dictate only *one* bike for the moment, touring and commuting alike). I'm a
woman, so I've been looking with interest at the "petite" series. Anyone
with advice is welcome to provide it! I will only be in the States for a
couple weeks in the end of August, and hope to make it over to Eugene for a
stop by the shop, and some fitting, or whatever is needed...but I'm trying
to get most of my research out of the way from as distance, as I may only
have a day or two available for all this. Thanks for any help you can
give...

Cheers,
Elizabeth
From richard_carter at fastmail.fm  Thu Jul  6 13:09:28 2006
From: richard_carter at fastmail.fm (Richard Carter)
Date: Thu Jul  6 13:09:51 2006
Subject: [Yak] Cycling Plus story
In-Reply-To: <1152209072.8018.265443274@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1152209072.8018.265443274@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1152209368.8443.265443659@webmail.messagingengine.com>

 Paul Patterson <bicycleflyer@yahoo.com> mentioned this article: if
anyone wants to read it I can send them scanned copy (Steve Strickland
at BF had asked me if I could scan it for them so it's done anyway. It
is, though, rather large and takes a fair bit of computer space. Anyone
interested, e-mail me off-list.
 
Richard
----------------------
  Richard Carter
  richard_carter@fastmail.fm

From phelpsh2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  6 15:16:19 2006
From: phelpsh2000 at yahoo.com (Phelps Hollo)
Date: Thu Jul  6 15:16:36 2006
Subject: [Yak] What happened to Air Llama?
Message-ID: <20060706201619.38730.qmail@web50807.mail.yahoo.com>

Just received BF catalogue in the mail and couldn't help but notice the absence of the Air Llama. Did the company have problems with the beam in rough service applications? Though the bike doesn't really work for my applications I've always thought it would be a fun and capable ride.
 		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Everyone is raving about the  all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
From yvonne.goldsmith at gmail.com  Thu Jul  6 18:49:21 2006
From: yvonne.goldsmith at gmail.com (Yvonne Goldsmith)
Date: Thu Jul  6 18:51:42 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: Moving to HK
Message-ID: <87aa53d90607061649m452679f6h71415fe9f6b02402@mail.gmail.com>

I have a petite Pocket Crusoe with drop handlebars, and am awaiting a petite
Gnu (Llama with front suspension).  I love my Crusoe, which is the only road
bike I have.  It is extremely comfortable.  I have it set up like a touring
bike (gears around 19" - 105") and relatively upright posture, but use
Stelvio 1 1/8 tires for my annual double century road race.  For commuting I
just use a wider touring tire.

Shifting from the middle to large ring on the front derailleur with my STI
is difficult.  The annual tuning fixes it up, but towards the end of the
season it's very sticky again.  If weight isn't a problem, consider the dual
drive hub or just get a double ring.  Shifting in the back is no problem.


> From: "Elizabeth Neilson" <eneilson83@gmail.com>
> I'm moving to Hong Kong, want a collapsable bike for 1000ish US
> dollars!....
> I've been looking with interest at the "petite" series.....
>



-- 
yvonne.goldsmith@gmail.com  Anchorage, AK
From roulez-libre at animail.net  Fri Jul  7 00:42:52 2006
From: roulez-libre at animail.net (bikefridaywalter)
Date: Fri Jul  7 00:32:38 2006
Subject: [Yak] What happened to Air Llama?
Message-ID: <FDB0F161991108D4A9C85E227401C280@roulez-libre.animail.net>

You'll notice the Pocket Gnu, also intended to be a mountain bike though it does not have the beam the Air Llama has, is also missing from the catalog.  Those pages are expensive and we thought it might make more sense to focus on some other aspects of the company.  We still offer both bikes, but we produce so few of them that other factors took priority.  If you'd like to come check one out, let me know. :)

w


---
EAT, RIDE AND BE MERRY!
contact me: http://tinyurl.com/5xqj8
BF World Map: http://frappr.com/bikefriday 


Stand up for puppies! Send a special "thank you"
to PA's governor for helping to stop puppy mills:
http://go.care2.com/puppymills

http://www.Care2.com  Free e-mail. 100MB storage.  Helps nonprofits. 
From VallensR at cox.net  Fri Jul  7 07:07:54 2006
From: VallensR at cox.net (Richard Vallens)
Date: Fri Jul  7 07:08:17 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: UPS vs FedEx Ground
References: <20060705170005.52E46194679@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <44AE4E9B.8AB1E1DE@cox.net>


FedEx vs UPS Service

The delivery drivers for FedEx GROUND service, at least here in Orange County,
California, are NOT FedEx employees over whom FedEx management has direct control.
They're called contract drivers, independent guys who buy their own trucks and buy a
delivery area to service.  When I've complained about deliveries as late at 8 pm, FedEx
said, "We can pass along your concerns, but we can't MAKE them deliver earlier.  They're
responsible for their own staffing."

All UPS deliveries (and the AIR portion of FedEx), are performed by direct employees of
those companies, and in my experience that truly makes a positive difference.  We've had
the same UPS driver for 15 years.  When our second Friday arrived (a NWT in a suitcase)
a few years after he delivered our beloved Family Tandem, he actually commented that
"now you have two".  And when the third Friday (a Sat R Day) arrived, he asked to see it
after it was set up.

   Richard Vallens

From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Fri Jul  7 07:48:31 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Fri Jul  7 08:31:27 2006
Subject: Upshifting front derailleur (was Re: [Yak] Re: Moving to HK)
In-Reply-To: <87aa53d90607061649m452679f6h71415fe9f6b02402@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <87aa53d90607061649m452679f6h71415fe9f6b02402@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060707084345.059db4b0@pop.spamcop.net>

At 19:49 7/6/2006, Yvonne Goldsmith wrote:


>Shifting from the middle to large ring on the front derailleur with my STI
>is difficult.  The annual tuning fixes it up, but towards the end of the
>season it's very sticky again.  If weight isn't a problem, consider the dual
>drive hub or just get a double ring.  Shifting in the back is no problem.

Upshifting is difficult on triples where the middle ring is much 
smaller than the large ring. If you get a larger middle ring, this 
problem will be reduced. You will still have the same overall gear 
range and you won't lose intermediate gears, as they overlap. Also, 
many modern chainrings have pins and ramps to help lift the chain 
from a smaller to a larger ring. And some front derailleurs are 
better than others at upshifting.

STI with only one click for each chainwheel is difficult, as the 
position of the chain is different depending on where it is on the 
cluster at the rear wheel. Non-indexed front shifting requires a bit 
of finesse but is more reliable. SunTour used to make downtube 
shifter assembly that adjusted the position of the front derailleur 
depending on the position at the rear -- a fine idea that also could 
be implemented with a gizmo somewhere in the cable run for other 
types of shifters. I'm waiting with bated breath to see someone offer 
such a thing for sale.

John S. Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com (replace " *at* " with "@")

http://www.bikexprt.com/  
From dvancleve at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  7 15:39:23 2006
From: dvancleve at yahoo.com (Doug Van Cleve)
Date: Fri Jul  7 15:39:42 2006
Subject: [Yak] new-to-me Family Tandem questions
Message-ID: <20060707203923.76303.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com>

Howdy folks.

I picked up a FT last weekend for a song and have already had several short but fun rides with my 6YO daughter.  I was told the bike I bought was 8 years old.  It has just a drum brake in front which is fine around the neighborhood but none too powerful.  The tires are also pretty rough, I think the rear might be original.

Anyway, I was wondering why it couldn't keep the front drum perhaps as a drag brake but send the fork back and have v-brake bosses added to get a powerful front brake.  I think this would work with H-bars and a barcon connected to the Sachs drum.

Next question is where can I find the serial number?  I didn't really clean it up yet and it is kinda grimey, but I didn't see anything on the two BB shells.

Last question is why shouldn't the Tioga Pool Comp be used on a tandem?  Seems like it would be great for this one...

Thanks, Doug

From vincemac at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Jul  7 16:06:36 2006
From: vincemac at tiscali.co.uk (Vince Mackenzie)
Date: Fri Jul  7 16:04:18 2006
Subject: [Yak] new-to-me Family Tandem questions
In-Reply-To: <20060707203923.76303.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EDEEKCNDCPOHJBFHBPMHCEJMCDAA.vincemac@tiscali.co.uk>

Hi Doug
The frame number is on the rear dropout, you will need to loosen the
wheelnuts to see it.
>From the sounds of that frame you have the self destruction headset on it as
well.Is it one of the tandems that only splits in the middle? If so you may
as well get a new set of forks with a threaded headset and bosses.  That
front drum is OK I used mine on a triple with a trailer as well, not the
best but it always worked. With an 6 YO on the back it should be fine. Give
the shoes a good clean up it may help. Theres plenty of tyres around so not
to much trouble there. Tiogas are pretty old design now so see what other
are using on that one.
If you are not sure what I mean by the headset emil me I will try to explain
about the one you have.
Vince



Howdy folks.

I picked up a FT last weekend for a song and have already had several short
but fun rides with my 6YO daughter.  I was told the bike I bought was 8
years old.  It has just a drum brake in front which is fine around the
neighborhood but none too powerful.  The tires are also pretty rough, I
think the rear might be original.

Anyway, I was wondering why it couldn't keep the front drum perhaps as a
drag brake but send the fork back and have v-brake bosses added to get a
powerful front brake.  I think this would work with H-bars and a barcon
connected to the Sachs drum.

Next question is where can I find the serial number?  I didn't really clean
it up yet and it is kinda grimey, but I didn't see anything on the two BB
shells.

Last question is why shouldn't the Tioga Pool Comp be used on a tandem?
Seems like it would be great for this one...

From shefner at houston.rr.com  Fri Jul  7 16:27:57 2006
From: shefner at houston.rr.com (Steve Hefner)
Date: Fri Jul  7 16:28:29 2006
Subject: [Yak] new-to-me Family Tandem questions
In-Reply-To: <20060707203923.76303.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c6a20c$3add80a0$6401a8c0@stevemain>

Doug,

I have a Triple Family Traveler and just put KENDA Kwest 20 x 1.50 tires on
it. I've ridden only about 50 mile on them. I checked out many post on Yak
and other and finally went with the recommendation of the Number 1 recumbent
shop here in Houston. I even called Kenda and talked with them about a Kwest
Tire specifically made for tandems and they told me this was it. Triple
sidewall made to withstand 100PSI. 

Regards,

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: yak-bounces@bikefriday.com [mailto:yak-bounces@bikefriday.com] On
Behalf Of Doug Van Cleve
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 3:39 PM
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Subject: [Yak] new-to-me Family Tandem questions

Howdy folks.

I picked up a FT last weekend for a song and have already had several short
but fun rides with my 6YO daughter.  I was told the bike I bought was 8
years old.  It has just a drum brake in front which is fine around the
neighborhood but none too powerful.  The tires are also pretty rough, I
think the rear might be original.

Anyway, I was wondering why it couldn't keep the front drum perhaps as a
drag brake but send the fork back and have v-brake bosses added to get a
powerful front brake.  I think this would work with H-bars and a barcon
connected to the Sachs drum.

Next question is where can I find the serial number?  I didn't really clean
it up yet and it is kinda grimey, but I didn't see anything on the two BB
shells.

Last question is why shouldn't the Tioga Pool Comp be used on a tandem?
Seems like it would be great for this one...

Thanks, Doug

_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak


From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  8 08:33:28 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Sat Jul  8 08:34:09 2006
Subject: [Yak] Tour de France: Two out of three ain't bad ... 
Message-ID: <F685AD52-4608-4ED0-967D-1B52B1D9E94B@yahoo.com>

Hi YAKsters,

  I am enjoying sitting in bed with my laptop watching footage Tour  
de France on OLN ... http://www.oln.com/tdf
ahhh, wireless internet...

Here's a bit of Friday trivia I feel obliged to share: of the three  
talking heads you see there: Bob Roll, Paul Sherwen and Phil Liggett,  
Bob and Phil are both Bike Friday owners.

Take a look:

* Tour de France on a Friday: lots of BF folks hitting the route  
route with their Fridays:
http://www.bikefriday.com/tdf

* The Gal meets Bob Roll in Texas (scroll down to second photo -  
including a movie of him saying so - it was news to me)
http://www.galfromdownunder.com/texas

* Phil Liggett on a Friday in the Gallery: with lots of links to  
stories about it:
http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm? 
fuseaction=WhatDoYouDo.gallery&rider=LiggettPhil

* The BF home page features Leo Anderson with his Crusoe on Ventoux -  
scroll down
http://www.bikefriday.com

So here's to Aussie Robbie McEwan winning a stage and becoming the  
next Lance!

Lynette Chiang
Bike Friday Adventurette
Recent adventure: http://www.bikefriday.com/route66
http://www.galfromdownunder.com
Cell: 541-513-7711



From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  8 09:09:17 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Sat Jul  8 09:09:47 2006
Subject: [Yak] Rob English sets hour record on a Pocket Rocket
Message-ID: <5AC36523-95B5-4797-AF20-EBEA2BC849A8@yahoo.com>

Yaksters,

If you had any doubt that Bike Fridays are fast enough, here's some  
news to hand: HPV champ and one of the faster fold (to put it  
lightly) Rob English just set a new British record on his garden- 
variety Pocket Rocket.
More details soon, meanwhile, I put what I have about it here:

http://tinyurl.com/bszys

Send him an email saying congrats! He's planning on joining the BF  
production team - I understand his work visa has been approved.  
Onwards and upwards! he is of course on our page of Famous Fridays:
http://www.bikefriday.com/bf/famous

PS:  for those watching the Tour de France on OLN.com, doncha agree  
the little animated segments with the beach cyclists are so much more  
appealing than those deadly serious SAAB ads... will ad agencies  
never learn? (speaking as a former creative director of one). I feel  
the need to rush out and buy a small plastic cyclist figurine on a  
bicycle...

Lynette Chiang
Bike Friday Adventurette
Recent adventure: http://www.bikefriday.com/route66
http://www.galfromdownunder.com
Cell: 541-513-7711



From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  8 09:56:21 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Sat Jul  8 09:56:59 2006
Subject: [Yak] oops: backpedal
Message-ID: <B81E2AA5-4B8E-47B5-8A78-991021A0A94E@yahoo.com>

Apologies, I think I was given wrong info, I do not think Rob did  
this particular record on his Friday after all .. although he has set  
records on it in the past.  I think I was too busy engrossed in the  
claymation on the OLN TDF site to think it through. However, he's  
still coming to work for BF I understand ...

Lynette Chiang
Bike Friday Adventurette
Recent adventure: http://www.bikefriday.com/route66
http://www.galfromdownunder.com
Cell: 541-513-7711



From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  8 13:33:23 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Sat Jul  8 13:33:59 2006
Subject: [Yak] Rob English Speed Record correction
Message-ID: <15FA89D3-15CA-4DC6-B2BA-5F6DC4425EB2@yahoo.com>

OK, Yaksters, here's the scoop, straight from the horsepower's mouth:

Hi Lynette,

Well, I guess the day was a Friday ... I used my Pocket Rocket for  
warming up, but
then switched to the Varna to rattle off 49.84 miles for one hour - a
new British record by three miles. I was actually running at world
record pace (53mph) for 20 minutes, but then severally overheated.
There are pictures on my website -
http://rob.bikerevuk.com/nissan/hour1.html and I've got bigger res
versions if you need them.
Today I rode La Marmotte cyclosportif in the French Alps - 174km and
5000m of climbing. I got round in 6:50 which I'm hoping will be top UK
finisher. Feel a bit stuffed now, still being jetlagged from Arizona
didn't help either.... Didn't ride my BF, needed something lighter for
this - I will be building myself a superlight Pocket Rocket Pro when  
I get there!
Currently I'm due to arrive in October - the visa allows me to start
work on October 1st.
Cheers,
Rob.

Lynette Chiang
Bike Friday Adventurette
Recent adventure: http://www.bikefriday.com/route66
http://www.galfromdownunder.com
Cell: 541-513-7711



From tony at raven-family.com  Sat Jul  8 14:13:24 2006
From: tony at raven-family.com (Tony Raven)
Date: Sat Jul  8 14:14:31 2006
Subject: [Yak] Rob English sets hour record on a Pocket Rocket 
In-Reply-To: <20060708170147.48FD2194585@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060708170147.48FD2194585@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <44B003D4.3060802@raven-family.com>

Have you visited his web site to see a Pocket Rocket being wheelied?
http://rob.bikerevuk.com/

Tony

>
>  Message: 5 Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 09:09:17 -0500
>  From: Lynette Chiang <lynchiang@yahoo.com>
>  Subject: [Yak] Rob English sets hour record on a Pocket Rocket
>
>  Yaksters,
>
>  If you had any doubt that Bike Fridays are fast enough, here's some
>  news to hand: HPV champ and one of the faster fold (to put it
>  lightly) Rob English just set a new British record on his garden-
>  variety Pocket Rocket. More details soon, meanwhile, I put what I
>  have about it here:
>
>  http://tinyurl.com/bszys
>
>  Send him an email saying congrats! He's planning on joining the BF
>  production team - I understand his work visa has been approved.
>  Onwards and upwards! he is of course on our page of Famous Fridays:
>  http://www.bikefriday.com/bf/famous
>

From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  9 18:45:33 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Sun Jul  9 18:46:08 2006
Subject: [Yak] March 10-17: Tour of Historic Towns and Hotels Week
Message-ID: <C86423ED-187B-4916-862C-D501916C9796@yahoo.com>

Yaksters,
We've had a deluge of folks (even some big wheels) expressing  
interest in the alluring new Bike Friday Desert Camp week, which has  
the official title above. I've put some links to some of the hotels  
in the article here:
http://www.bikefriday.com/desertcamp
Official sign up will be after September 1.
You'll get all the usual goodies Susan and Lon ply you with during  
this week ... great clothing, books etc and we're already thinking  
about the kinds of entertainment to offer in the evenings, entirely  
optional of course, which will be less about training hard and more  
informational fun, perhaps with a historic flavor.
Jim Langley is one person who was a favorite the past two years with  
his tales of historic headbadges and doing a century on a genuine hi- 
wheeler in full historical regalia - very fitting.
If you would like to have him back, we can ask him. Anyone you'd like  
to see at the camp?
And if you have any suggestions with a historic theme - perhaps a  
murder she wrote? Games? How about a good old fashioned social dime a  
dance? Just kidding. Well, maybe not! I'll probably show the Route66  
movie (50 minutes) if I am lucky enough to attend this year. Lon  
might show some historic PACTOUR and/or RAAM video. The 2004 RAAM  
video was just amazing - about fascinating characters and dynamics,  
not just hammering on your last 20 calories.
Or,  perhaps some of you have an talk or performance, technical,  
musical, comedy, video or otherwise, you'd like to do.
There's a lot of talent in the BF community.
Get your thinking caps on (the tweedy looking ones).

Lynette Chiang
Bike Friday Adventurette
Recent adventure: http://www.bikefriday.com/route66
http://www.galfromdownunder.com
Cell: 541-513-7711




From eswierk at gmail.com  Mon Jul 10 00:09:02 2006
From: eswierk at gmail.com (Ed Swierk)
Date: Mon Jul 10 00:09:20 2006
Subject: [Yak] Death Ride photos
Message-ID: <c1bf1cf0607092209l7056e377h39562664a6907b59@mail.gmail.com>

Yakkers,

Here are some photos from the Tour of the California Alps, aka the
Death Ride, which I rode on my BF Pocket Rocket this past weekend. I
was lucky enough to finish in (a decidedly non-record-breaking) 11.5
hours, rolling to the finish just as the skies opened up and unleashed
a torrential downpour, complete with hail.

http://flickr.com/photos/eswierk/sets/72157594193644437/

I first heard about Bike Friday on the Death Ride in past years, but I
didn't see any others this year. The good news for Bike Friday is that
it has great brand recognition--I must have heard "Wow, a Bike
Friday!" at least 30 or 40 times. The not-so-good news is that this
was frequently followed by an expression of amazement that I was
riding a Bike Friday on such a hard ride. Despite my efforts to
convince them that my BF rides just like my "normal" bike, a number of
people seemed to react as though I were riding blindfolded or pedaling
with one foot.

Anyway, the Pocket Rocket performed admirably the entire day, and the
ability to fold it up and stick it in the car in 30 seconds was a
lifesaver while I was being pelted with ice chunks.

--Ed
From faunt at panix.com  Mon Jul 10 12:26:01 2006
From: faunt at panix.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604)
Date: Mon Jul 10 12:26:23 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
Message-ID: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>

Hi All, 
I've decided I want to get a BF NWT, but am unable to come to
a decision about gearing options, in particularly, hub vs derailleur.
The criteria is reliability, particularly when traveling.  That
includes damage while carrying the bike on other modes of
transportation, and ability to repair, both roadside and local shop,
if there's a problem, as well as rate of failure.  The extra weight of
the hub is a niggling, but less significant, factor.

I think I'd always be in situations where other transportation is
available, and I won't be touring for the sake of touring, but instead
using the the bike for more flexibility.

So, opinions, please!

73, doug
who's currently got a Brompton and a Montague.
From fkess05 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul 10 12:53:48 2006
From: fkess05 at sbcglobal.net (Floyd Kessler)
Date: Mon Jul 10 12:54:18 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20060710175348.18608.qmail@web80728.mail.yahoo.com>

I've had a Pocket Rocket with a Sachs hub for almost 7 years. I'm glad I didn't choose the derailleur. I like to be able to shift down at stops and be ready to take off in a lower gear with no chain problems. It's been reliable. A few drops of Phil Wood's Tenacious Oil every few weeks has been my only maintenance.
  The rear drop outs are verticle and it requires proper alignment when replacing the rear wheel after a tire change or fixing a flat. It's definitely more awkward than changing a wheel with only a cassette because of the heavier weight . I use Kevlar tires to try to minimize rear wheel removal.
   
  Floyd
  

Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 <faunt@panix.com> wrote:
  Hi All, 
I've decided I want to get a BF NWT, but am unable to come to
a decision about gearing options, in particularly, hub vs derailleur.
The criteria is reliability, particularly when traveling. That
includes damage while carrying the bike on other modes of
transportation, and ability to repair, both roadside and local shop,
if there's a problem, as well as rate of failure. The extra weight of
the hub is a niggling, but less significant, factor.

I think I'd always be in situations where other transportation is
available, and I won't be touring for the sake of touring, but instead
using the the bike for more flexibility.

So, opinions, please!

73, doug
who's currently got a Brompton and a Montague.
_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak

From Dustypence at aol.com  Mon Jul 10 18:16:14 2006
From: Dustypence at aol.com (Dustypence@aol.com)
Date: Mon Jul 10 18:18:00 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
Message-ID: <4b9.4111e80.31e439be@aol.com>

I have a different take, but I should preface my comments with the notation 
that I am NOT mechanically inclined and that my NWT is an older model. I have 
an internal hub on my NWT (several years old) and I have an 04 SRD. 

The 04 SRD uses a SRAM, and it is terribly difficult to reconnect after 
changing a flat - not just my problem, the mechanic on my last bike tour struggled 
with it too. One time, on my own, I just had to leave it disconnected and ride 
without those gears. 

My NWT's hub doesn't use the SRAM, but it too can be a pain to reconnect. The 
extra weight is an issue, and while it is nice as mentioned to be able to 
shift at a stop without pedaling, you do have the issue that you must stop 
pedaling for an instant to shift. I got used to this quickly and learned to 
anticipate the need to shift before I was pedaling hard enough to make that an issue. 

The long and the short of it: one of the reasons I am hoping to trade my old 
SRD for the new one is that I hate that internal hub. And when I ride my NWT, 
I always dread a flat on the rear tire. It just takes too much time! I am 
gradually shifting away from internal hubs and back to derailleurs. (Though I will 
never give up my seven-speed Schwinn, in spite of the humb!)

I think it comes down to your comfort level with things mechanical (mine is 
low) and your patience when changing the rear tire takes just too much time! 
Good luck!

Happy trails,

Dusty


In a message dated 7/10/06 11:55:03 AM, fkess05@sbcglobal.net writes:


> I've had a Pocket Rocket with a Sachs hub for almost 7 years. I'm glad I 
> didn't choose the derailleur. I like to be able to shift down at stops and be 
> ready to take off in a lower gear with no chain problems. It's been reliable. 
> A few drops of Phil Wood's Tenacious Oil every few weeks has been my only 
> maintenance.
> ? The rear drop outs are verticle and it requires proper alignment when 
> replacing the rear wheel after a tire change or fixing a flat. It's definitely 
> more awkward than changing a wheel with only a cassette because of the heavier 
> weight . I use Kevlar tires to try to minimize rear wheel removal.
> ??
> ? Floyd
> ?
> 
> Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 <faunt@panix.com> wrote:
> ? Hi All,
> I've decided I want to get a BF NWT, but am unable to come to
> a decision about gearing options, in particularly, hub vs derailleur.
> The criteria is reliability, particularly when traveling. That
> includes damage while carrying the bike on other modes of
> transportation, and ability to repair, both roadside and local shop,
> if there's a problem, as well as rate of failure. The extra weight of
> the hub is a niggling, but less significant, factor.
> 
> I think I'd always be in situations where other transportation is
> available, and I won't be touring for the sake of touring, but instead
> using the the bike for more flexibility.
> 
> So, opinions, please!
> 
> 

From alex at phred.org  Mon Jul 10 18:30:59 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Mon Jul 10 18:31:16 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
References: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20060710162815.D2175@phred.org>

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:
> The criteria is reliability, particularly when traveling.  That
> includes damage while carrying the bike on other modes of
> transportation, and ability to repair, both roadside and local shop,
> if there's a problem, as well as rate of failure.

All of these things lean heavily towards a derailleur setup.  The
internal gear hubs are reliable, but the parts for them are not well
stocked at normal bike shops.

I'm a huge fan of internal gear hubs, but not a big fan of hybrid
internal/derailleur systems like the 3x7 and DualDrive.  Full internal
gear hub systems have the extra reliability of few external parts, a
simpler chainline, and are generally more weatherproof.  Derailleur
systems have the advantage of being mechanically simpler, less
expensive, and easier to find parts for.  A hybrid setup like the
DualDrive gives you the annoyances of an internal gear setup with none
of the benefits.

alex
From mike at analysis66.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jul 10 18:47:47 2006
From: mike at analysis66.freeserve.co.uk (Michael Roberts)
Date: Mon Jul 10 18:48:32 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
References: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
	<20060710162815.D2175@phred.org>
Message-ID: <009e01c6a47b$3f7eb900$5da14e51@michael>


----- Original Message -----
From: "alex wetmore" <alex@phred.org>
>
> I'm a huge fan of internal gear hubs, but not a big fan of hybrid
> internal/derailleur systems like the 3x7 and DualDrive.  Full internal
> gear hub systems have the extra reliability of few external parts, a
> simpler chainline, and are generally more weatherproof.  Derailleur
> systems have the advantage of being mechanically simpler, less
> expensive, and easier to find parts for.  A hybrid setup like the
> DualDrive gives you the annoyances of an internal gear setup with none
> of the benefits.
>

I suppose it depends on the person, as to whether their cup is half-full or
half-empty?

Do you have all the advantages of both systems - or all the disadvantages?

Years ago I thought the 3x7 was a 7-speed hub-gear with a 3-speed
derailleur - I was disappointed :-)



-- 
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release Date: 23/06/2006


From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 10 22:09:43 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Mon Jul 10 22:11:01 2006
Subject: [Yak] *MISSING PERSON* MTB pioneer John Finley Scott
Message-ID: <56291342-5C2B-4858-81DB-111F11C3DD24@yahoo.com>

Alan Scholz asked me to post an article o the Bike Friday website to  
help solve the mystery of the missing father of the mountain bike,  
John Finley Scott. I have pieced together bits of info sent to me by  
John Allen and John Schubert.
The article is on the BF website here:
http://www.bikefriday.com/jfs
- feel free to share this link. I paste the text below, the article  
itself has a picture of John.

July 10, 2006:
JOHN FINLEY SCOTT is missing.
The 'father of the mountain bike' disappeared from his home over a  
month ago and has not been seen since. As we understand it, his house  
was left in a 'just popped down the road to get a gallon of milk' state.
"The odds of him showing up are vanishingly tiny," said Adventure  
Cycling Association's John Schubert, and if anyone knows who's doing  
what, where, when to whom with a 52 tooth chaingring, it's the  
authoritative Schubert.
"Within the past week, I asked his niece if there were any new  
developments, and she said no. Obviously, I'm not privy to anything  
the police might know, but I can't figure out who would stand to gain  
from offing him like this. Too weird ..."
Who is JFS?
A retired professor of sociology at the University of California,  
Davis, John is widely credited as the inventor of the first mountain  
bike.
A website called the Mountain Bike Hall of Fame says this about  
origins of the MTB:
Maybe it was John Finley Scott who was probably the first mountain  
bike enthusiast in the United States. In 1953 he built what he called  
a ? Woodsie Bike?, using a Schwinn World diamond frame, balloon  
tires, flat handlebars, derailleur gears, and cantilever brakes. John  
was more than twenty years ahead of his time, and while he remained  
an off-road cycling enthusiast, at the time there were not many  
others who shared his passion ...

We wrote about John after he visited the Bike Friday factory in 2005  
following a Bicycle history conference in Davis, CA.

"He was an extensive cycle tourist and explorer, builder of a  
prototypical mountain bike in 1953, advocate for improvement of  
California cycling laws and facilities, supporting investor of 70s'  
mountain bike pioneers, and spent several years as owner of the  
Cupertino (California) Bicycle Shop," said Bike Friday co-founder  
Alan Scholz.

"Cupertino was founded by the charismatic Spence Wolf in 1953. I  
bought it from him when he retired in 1980, and sold it to my friend  
Vance Sprock in 1989," said an animated Scott, twirling a large  
chainring between his fingers as he was led through the factory.

"Scott used to own a London double-decker bus, which he would use to  
transport bike racers to the races. Once they stopped at a rest area,  
and the racers (not the most organized people) took off,  
unintentionally leaving Scott behind. They were made aware of their  
mistake when a police car, carrying a none-too-happy Scott, pulled  
them over. I wonder how many pounds of marijuana got thrown out the  
side of the bus when the cop arrived!" quipped Schubert.

John S Allen, who attended the 2005 conference and visited the Bike  
Friday factory with Scott, said: "The bus was still at his house when  
I visited him last fall, though not in working order. Vance Sprock,  
current owner of the Cupertino Bike Shop, has another which is in  
working order and fancy looking. UC Davis has a fleet of them which  
it uses to shuttle students around campus, thereby reducing the  
popularity of bicycling for students -- a topic JFS was studying. I  
wonder whether those shuttle buses are on campus as a result of his  
example ..."

John, you're one of the reasons this auto-centric world has not  
completely submerged its sorry orb into a vat of oil, and we hope  
you'll come pedaling home safe and well.

If anyone has any information, please email it to John Schubert,  
schubley at aol dot com

Permalink: http://www.bikefriday.com/jfs



For more information, follow this link http://www.bikefriday.com/ 
main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=510&Category=News.

Lynette Chiang
Bike Friday Adventurette
Recent adventure: http://www.bikefriday.com/route66
http://www.galfromdownunder.com
Cell: 541-513-7711




From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Mon Jul 10 22:09:51 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Mon Jul 10 22:24:18 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <20060710162815.D2175@phred.org>
References: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
	<20060710162815.D2175@phred.org>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060710222645.059e1360@pop.spamcop.net>

At 19:30 7/10/2006, alex wetmore wrote:


>I'm a huge fan of internal gear hubs, but not a big fan of hybrid
>internal/derailleur systems like the 3x7 and DualDrive.  Full internal
>gear hub systems have the extra reliability of few external parts, a
>simpler chainline, and are generally more weatherproof.  Derailleur
>systems have the advantage of being mechanically simpler, less
>expensive, and easier to find parts for.  A hybrid setup like the
>DualDrive gives you the annoyances of an internal gear setup with none
>of the benefits.

I think you overstate. The ability to shift down when stopped 
remains. You don't need a front derailleur, which is generally much 
more finicky than a rear derailleur, especially with wide-step triple 
chainrings, and is vulnerable when the bike is folded. And on the 
Friday with its small wheels, the internal hub lets you have a high 
gear without the tiny 9-tooth top cog of the Shimano Capreo (also 
hard to find parts for) or a large chainring that requires removing 
the right crank (and bit by bit loosening its fit) to pack the bike.
You also can have a low gear without a long-cage rear derailleur 
which has your chain nearly dragging on the ground. My bike's single 
chainwheel is mounted like the inner one of a double setup, and the 
protector plate mounted in the outer position has protected the 
chainwheel and the TravelCase.

The main problem with the newer SRAM internal hubs is the 
rod-operated clickbox, which in my opinion is a problem looking for a 
solution. The older pullchain was simpler, less vulnerable and more 
reliable, and that's one reason I went for an older 
factory-refurbished Friday equipped with one. I did make a few 
changes -- the supplied long-cage Shimano DeOre derailleur to a 
Shimano 600 racing derailleur I had in my spare parts stock; the 
7-speed cassette from 11-13-15-18-21-24-28 (with the large 15-18 jump 
a real annoyance) to a 13-15-17-19-21-24-28, and the 46-tooth 
chainring to a 44 (Biopace! I had one, I like it, say what you will). 
This gives a range of 25 to 93 gear inches (2.0 to 7.4 meters 
development), which is fine for me, though I might in future change 
to an 8 of 9, see http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#897 , restoring 
the 11-tooth top cog and using a slightly smaller chainring to add to 
the range at both ends.

The crankset on my bike has a position for an inner small chainwheel 
with a 74 mm bolt circle, and I am considering mounting one with 28 
teeth but without a front derailleur, for use only on the very few 
outrageously steep climbs, shifting it manually (stick or wrench 
between chain and chainring at the bottom of the chainrings, turn the 
crank backwards to shift without getting hands dirty). Fargo Street 
Hill Climb, here I come, if I can arrange to be in Los Angeles on the 
appointed day...see http://www.lawheelmen.org/fargo.htm

John S. Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com (replace " *at* " with "@")

http://www.bikexprt.com/ 
From faunt at panix.com  Mon Jul 10 22:34:29 2006
From: faunt at panix.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604)
Date: Mon Jul 10 22:34:43 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060710222645.059e1360@pop.spamcop.net>
	(jsallen@bikexprt.com)
References: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
	<20060710162815.D2175@phred.org>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20060710222645.059e1360@pop.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <200607110334.k6B3YTl03391@panix2.panix.com>

Note that I get the Yak mailings as a digest, so there may have been
responses I've not seen.  This is being very informative, if still
confusing.  The best thing I've realized (again) is that my decision
can be changed, if I feel that I've made the wrong one.

OK.  If the rod-operated clickbox is a problem (I have no idea what that
is, really), is this something that incapacitates the bike? Or does it
just mean the hub is stuck in a single gear, but works? 

73, doug

   Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 23:09:51 -0400
   From: "John S. Allen" <jsallen@bikexprt.com>

    The main problem with the newer SRAM internal hubs is the 
   rod-operated clickbox, which in my opinion is a problem looking for a 
   solution. The older pullchain was simpler, less vulnerable and more 
   reliable, and that's one reason I went for an older 
   factory-refurbished Friday equipped with one. 

From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 11 00:44:50 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Tue Jul 11 00:45:13 2006
Subject: [Yak] John Finley Scott
Message-ID: <20060711054450.95241.qmail@web34714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

How old a man is Mr. Scott? Where is he missing from;
what city? I gather he is an older gentleman from the
picture of him, did he have any significant health
problems? The question, "Where is he?" opens up a
whole panoply of additional questions. What do the
police say? Have they actually been notified? What
efforts are they making? Do they take his
disappearance seriously?
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CA
From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Tue Jul 11 07:27:48 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Tue Jul 11 07:28:42 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <200607110334.k6B3YTl03391@panix2.panix.com>
References: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
	<20060710162815.D2175@phred.org>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20060710222645.059e1360@pop.spamcop.net>
	<200607110334.k6B3YTl03391@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060711082700.04db5180@pop.spamcop.net>

At 23:34 7/10/2006, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:
>Note that I get the Yak mailings as a digest, so there may have been
>responses I've not seen.  This is being very informative, if still
>confusing.  The best thing I've realized (again) is that my decision
>can be changed, if I feel that I've made the wrong one.
>
>OK.  If the rod-operated clickbox is a problem (I have no idea what that
>is, really), is this something that incapacitates the bike? Or does it
>just mean the hub is stuck in a single gear, but works?

Stuck in high gear if the clickbox breaks down; maybe stuck in 
another gear if the rod jams.

John S. Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com (replace " *at* " with "@")

http://www.bikexprt.com/ 
From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Tue Jul 11 07:32:10 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Tue Jul 11 07:33:02 2006
Subject: [Yak] John Finley Scott
In-Reply-To: <20060711054450.95241.qmail@web34714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060711054450.95241.qmail@web34714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060711082835.059a4e50@pop.spamcop.net>

At 01:44 7/11/2006, charles voigtsberger wrote:
>How old a man is Mr. Scott?

72

>Where is he missing from;
>what city?

Davis, CA, USA

>I gather he is an older gentleman from the
>picture of him, did he have any significant health
>problems?

Good general health as far as I knew; was having an ankle problem 
when I saw him last September.

>The question, "Where is he?" opens up a
>whole panoply of additional questions. What do the
>police say?

Foul play suspected; I know little more.

>Have they actually been notified?

Yes.

>What
>efforts are they making?

Don't know, though they searched John's house.

>Do they take his
>disappearance seriously?

Yes.

I stayed at his place when attending the Bicycle History Conference 
in Davis last September, and have offered what few ideas I can think 
of to the family.

John S. Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com (replace " *at* " with "@")

http://www.bikexprt.com/ 
From aozolins at ithaca.edu  Tue Jul 11 09:12:06 2006
From: aozolins at ithaca.edu (Andrejs Ozolins)
Date: Tue Jul 11 09:16:04 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <200607110334.k6B3YTl03391@panix2.panix.com>
References: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
	<20060710162815.D2175@phred.org>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20060710222645.059e1360@pop.spamcop.net>
	<200607110334.k6B3YTl03391@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <44B3B1B6.8090004@ithaca.edu>

Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:
> OK.  If the rod-operated clickbox is a problem (I have no idea what that
> is, really), is this something that incapacitates the bike? Or does it
> just mean the hub is stuck in a single gear, but works? 

Doug,

I guess I should say that that click box really is a problem. But, not a 
terminal one.

Two weeks ago I did the Sierra to the Sea ride in California. (There 
were a half dozen Fridays participating.) When I arrived at the start 
and assembled my Pocket Rocket, the cable out of the left shifter was 
badly bent and the wire of the housing was sticking out in bits. I 
straightened it out and tried to reseat it, and it looked ok. But, when 
I tried to ride it was clear that it was badly out of adjustment and 
unridable. The mechanic was upbeat about fixing it, but the fact is that 
he really didn't know enough about the system to be making a repair. 
Repeatedly he had me try it, and I'd find that I was straddling the 
point in the shifting where there is a gap between two gears and the cog 
spins freely. So, I'd get these clunks in and out of gear. There is a 
barrel adjuster on the click-box, but it didn't seem to be in range of 
fixing this thing. The upshot was that I rode off next morning with the 
highest and lowest gear available, and just stayed out of the middle one 
all day. In the evening I asked the mechanic to have another go, but it 
was about the same. By the third day or so, however, there must have 
been some stretch or settling in somewhere, and I got all three gears 
again for the rest of the trip and my couple weeks extra vacationing in 
California.

So, my request would be for Bike Friday to prepare a very clear set of 
diagrams and explanations of the system so that there is something to 
refer to when things go wrong. Mechanics don't usually like this kind of 
help, but if I had had it to hand over, I bet he would have had a look 
before my third or fourth return.

The basic setup is very simple. There is a thin rod sticking out of the 
middle of the axle. To change gears in the hub, you pull the rod out. 
Out a little is middle gear, out a lot is high gear. A spring pulls it 
all the way in for low gear. It used to be that the shift cable pulled 
that rod directly via a tiny chain, and you could see what was 
happening. The click-box did away with that so that the shift cable 
attaches to the side of the box and the box somehow attaches to the end 
of the shifting rod (with a click).

If you couldn't get the shifting to work at all, you'd be in low gear 
only. I guess you could go a ways in low. Maybe you could use some tape 
and wire to pull the rod out and get it stuck in a higher gear. So, 
there are ways to soldier on, just like with derailer systems.

This last was the only problem I've ever had in my life with an internal 
gear hub -- and I spent thousands of miles, back when, in the Sturmey 
Archer world. They just never failed. I hear from others that they can 
fail and I believe it, of course. But, my experience is that they are by 
far less trouble than derailers.

So, I like my setup very much. But, I don't have any experience with a 
front derailer Bike Friday. I won't order one until I learn a lot more 
-- about ease of folding and packing, need for adjustment after travel, 
etc. But, the thought of losing some of the pounds in that ingot of a 
rear hub certainly is appealing and I may investigate the alternatives 
more one day.

Andrejs

From alex at phred.org  Tue Jul 11 09:46:45 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue Jul 11 09:47:13 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060710222645.059e1360@pop.spamcop.net>
References: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
	<20060710162815.D2175@phred.org>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20060710222645.059e1360@pop.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <20060711073936.W22451@phred.org>

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, John S. Allen wrote:
> The main problem with the newer SRAM internal hubs is the rod-operated 
> clickbox, which in my opinion is a problem looking for a solution.

Have you used one?  I felt the same way until I got a SRAM S7 7sp hub
with a clickbox.  The clickbox is a lot easier to install and remove
than the indicator chain, makes alignment easier (more important on
the 7sp hub than a 3sp one), and seems to be plenty durable.  The 7sp
ones come with a little cage that projects the clickbox from side
impacts.

You don't need too long of a cage for low gearing on a derailleur 
system.  My Bike Friday has an Ultegra GS cage derailleur running
56/46/30 chainrings with an 11-28 cassette.  This gives me a gear
range of 97" down to 20".  The rear derailleur is height is much
better than if using an SGS cage one (most MTB models) as shown
here:
http://phred.org/~alex/pictures/bikes/bikefriday/reduced/IMGP3033.jpg

If I were needing an even lower gear I'd use an 11-32 or 11-34
cassette with an XTR GS cage rear derailleur.  The cage length isn't
any longer on this RD than on my Ultegra, but it can handle 32 and 34t
cogs where the Ultegra really maxes out around 28 to 30t.

The front derailleur is vulnerable when packing and suitcase packing
takes slightly longer with a front derailleur setup.  Based on the
original posters concerns it is clear that the derailleur setup is
probably better for his needs.

An option that no one has mentioned is using a Rohloff hub (or a Nexus
8sp if you don't need so many gears).  I have a Rohloff on one of my
full size bikes and the shifting range is superb, it feels more
efficient than any other internal gear hub that I've used, and there
is nothing sticking out anywhere to get damaged.  The obvious downside
is the cost, the hub by itself runs about $900.

alex
From vincemac at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Jul 11 10:03:10 2006
From: vincemac at tiscali.co.uk (Vince Mackenzie)
Date: Tue Jul 11 10:00:41 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <44B3B1B6.8090004@ithaca.edu>
Message-ID: <EDEEKCNDCPOHJBFHBPMHOEKDCDAA.vincemac@tiscali.co.uk>



Try here
http://www.sram.com/_media/pdf/sram/comfort/dualdrive/DualDrive_Ins_E_12_02.
PDF
Or for all languages try here
http://www.sram.com/en/service/sram/cft_dualdrive.php there is also here a
link to a dealer tech info. Beware it is a large pdf file so may take a
while to load. Or try this link
http://www.sram.com/_media/pdf/sram/dealers/TM_GHS_MY06_E.pdf
That should be all the instructions for the dual drive.
Good luck Vince
From rickbsgu at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 11 10:51:32 2006
From: rickbsgu at yahoo.com (Rick Berger)
Date: Tue Jul 11 10:51:45 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur - Rohloff hubs
In-Reply-To: <20060711073936.W22451@phred.org>
Message-ID: <20060711155132.85641.qmail@web56009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


>>>
An option that no one has mentioned is using a Rohloff hub (or a Nexus
8sp if you don't need so many gears).  I have a Rohloff on one of my
full size bikes and the shifting range is superb, it feels more
efficient than any other internal gear hub that I've used, and there
is nothing sticking out anywhere to get damaged.  The obvious downside
is the cost, the hub by itself runs about $900.
<<<

I've heard these are good, but they're kinda weighty, aren't they?

Was thinking about this at one time, but I seem to recall the weight factor was pretty high (besides the cost factor.)
Don't have specs to look up

rickb
-----
Green Gnu/Red Sat-R-Day
______________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak




From alex at phred.org  Tue Jul 11 11:05:59 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:06:08 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur - Rohloff hubs
In-Reply-To: <20060711155132.85641.qmail@web56009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <20060711155132.85641.qmail@web56009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060711090122.W2175@phred.org>

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006, Rick Berger wrote:
> I've heard these are good, but they're kinda weighty, aren't they?

I doubt that the Rohloff is any heavier than a DualDrive hub plus rear
derailleur and 9sp cassette.  They are heavier than a very lightweight
derailleur setup, but probably not much more than ones with more
pedestrian components.

Anyone considering one should read this article from Thorn:
http://www.sjscycles.com/thornwebsite/thornpdf/ThornLivingWithARohloff.pdf

It is replacing the following components:
* Rear hub
* Rear cassette
* Rear derailleur
* Front derailleur
* Many links of chain
* 2 chainrings

In the end the difference is probably around 1lb from most derailleur
setups, perhaps even less on touring setups.

alex
From waranoid at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 11 11:17:27 2006
From: waranoid at yahoo.com (Marc Plum)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:18:08 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub gears, different kinds.
Message-ID: <44B3CF17.7070804@yahoo.com>

First, let me say that my only experience with hub gears is the Sturmey 
Archer 5 speed (Taiwanese version) on my Raleigh Twenty.  It gives me a 
range of roughly 38 to 86 gear inches as presently set up, and is okay 
for riding around town.  The recent hub gear discussion has been mostly 
about the 3x7 derailleur hub gear combo.

How many people have tried true hub gears on a Bike Friday?  Not just 
the wide range Rohloff, there have been frequent comments on that.  How 
about the 8 speed models from Shimano, Sram, and Sturmey-Archer?

Heinz Stucke's Pocket Lama apparently was built with a Nexus 7 speed.  
 From the pictures, ( http://tinyurl.com/epuvl ) it appears that it had 
to use something like a Surley Singleator because of the vertical 
dropouts.  Few people might select these for touring, but it seems like 
they could be good choice for commuters.

Has BF ever made bikes with horizontal dropouts, which work better for 
hub gears or fixed gears?  I remember that, years ago, they advertised a 
7 speed hub-geared Metro, with rear drum brakes.  Don't know what kind 
of dropouts it had.

I'm not considering any of this for myself, just curious.

Marc Plum
From alex at phred.org  Tue Jul 11 11:29:08 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:31:22 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub gears, different kinds.
In-Reply-To: <44B3CF17.7070804@yahoo.com>
References: <44B3CF17.7070804@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060711092252.K2175@phred.org>

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006, Marc Plum wrote:
> Has BF ever made bikes with horizontal dropouts, which work better for hub 
> gears or fixed gears?  I remember that, years ago, they advertised a 7 speed 
> hub-geared Metro, with rear drum brakes.  Don't know what kind of dropouts it 
> had.

Bike Friday makes a few fixed gear models.

The problem with using horizontal dropouts and no tensioner is that
the effective chainstay length changes as you fold the rear triangle. 
Depending on your use this may or may not be a big deal.

The Metro used vertical dropouts with a chain tensioner.

I have a fair amount of experience with internal gear hubs, but not
much on Bike Fridays.  I've owned SRAM and Shimano 7sp hubs and have
ridden bikes with Sturmey Archer 7sp and Shimano 8sp hubs.  My Swift
Folder had a 7sp SRAM hub and I've ridden centuries on that bike. 
I've also overhauled the SRAM 7sp hubs (but not the Shimanos since
they are not designed to be overhauled).

7sp and 8sp hubs are great for city bikes.  You can easily get a 
range of around 30-80" or a little bit wider which is perfect for
most city riding.  They typically don't have enough range to get the
low gearing that I'd want for loaded touring, but as the number of
gears increases they get closer to fullfilling that promise.  I'm
looking forward to reading more about the upcoming SRAM i9.  It 
looks like it has the range to offer 24" to 82" gearing with 
pretty good spacing (17%).

alex
From rickbsgu at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 11 11:33:14 2006
From: rickbsgu at yahoo.com (Rick Berger)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:33:45 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur - Rohloff hubs
In-Reply-To: <20060711090122.W2175@phred.org>
Message-ID: <20060711163314.96881.qmail@web56013.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Ah, right - hadn't thought about everything else that gets replaced.

Good point.

Thanks,
rickb
 
A mind is not a vessel to be filled,
it is a fire to be ignited.
  -- Plutarch

----- Original Message ----
From: alex wetmore <alex@phred.org>
To: Rick Berger <rickbsgu@yahoo.com>
Cc: yak@bikefriday.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:05:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur - Rohloff hubs

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006, Rick Berger wrote:
> I've heard these are good, but they're kinda weighty, aren't they?

I doubt that the Rohloff is any heavier than a DualDrive hub plus rear
derailleur and 9sp cassette.  They are heavier than a very lightweight
derailleur setup, but probably not much more than ones with more
pedestrian components.

Anyone considering one should read this article from Thorn:
http://www.sjscycles.com/thornwebsite/thornpdf/ThornLivingWithARohloff.pdf

It is replacing the following components:
* Rear hub
* Rear cassette
* Rear derailleur
* Front derailleur
* Many links of chain
* 2 chainrings

In the end the difference is probably around 1lb from most derailleur
setups, perhaps even less on touring setups.

alex




From john63401 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 11:36:03 2006
From: john63401 at gmail.com (J M)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:36:21 2006
Subject: [Yak] Help me sell Ti mt bike?
Message-ID: <25ddd8de0607110936i3edf3c86i80ccb7b41a9756cf@mail.gmail.com>

I have a excellent shape Ti mt bike that i no longer want.  I want to
sell it and use funds to buy an NWT.

Whats best way to sell such a bike?  eBay maybe?

It cost me $1400 new abt 4 years ago.  Want $700

And its NOT hardly ever been ridden!

Advice?
From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 11 11:36:38 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:42:57 2006
Subject: [Yak] John Finley Scott missing
In-Reply-To: <20060711163134.15E70194698@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060711163134.15E70194698@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <B32B5C0C-54B6-444F-B4AF-DBCF8A6688EB@yahoo.com>

He's just missing.
He's based in Davis.
This isn't a police dossier, and I am not going to make it one, it's  
just a heads up to let you know about him in case anyone hears anything.
Lynette


From faunt at panix.com  Tue Jul 11 11:48:19 2006
From: faunt at panix.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:52:48 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <44B3B1B6.8090004@ithaca.edu> (aozolins@ithaca.edu)
References: <44B3B1B6.8090004@ithaca.edu>
Message-ID: <200607111648.k6BGmJ305004@panix2.panix.com>

   Message: 4
   Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:12:06 -0400
   From: Andrejs Ozolins <aozolins@ithaca.edu>

   Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:
   > OK.  If the rod-operated clickbox is a problem (I have no idea what that
   > is, really), is this something that incapacitates the bike? Or does it
   > just mean the hub is stuck in a single gear, but works? 

   Doug,

   I guess I should say that that click box really is a problem. But, not a 
   terminal one.

   If you couldn't get the shifting to work at all, you'd be in low gear 
   only. I guess you could go a ways in low. Maybe you could use some tape 
   and wire to pull the rod out and get it stuck in a higher gear. So, 
   there are ways to soldier on, just like with derailer systems.

Thanks for the explanation.
It also looks as if these are relatively inexpensive and small parts,
so actually carrying spares might be a good strategy.

   So, I like my setup very much. But, I don't have any experience with a 
   front derailer Bike Friday. I won't order one until I learn a lot more 
   -- about ease of folding and packing, need for adjustment after travel, 
   etc. But, the thought of losing some of the pounds in that ingot of a 
   rear hub certainly is appealing and I may investigate the alternatives 
   more one day.

I'm leaning towards the dual-drive, in fact.  If the internal bits are
reliable, and it's just the shifter bits that are vulnerable, then
carrying spares would address that.

73, doug





From rickbsgu at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 11 11:49:16 2006
From: rickbsgu at yahoo.com (Rick Berger)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:53:06 2006
Subject: [Yak] Help me sell Ti mt bike?
In-Reply-To: <25ddd8de0607110936i3edf3c86i80ccb7b41a9756cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060711164916.12146.qmail@web56004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

eBay is the way to go.  Unless you live in a hot biking community, in which case a local classified or bulletin board in a bike shop might work better.
I live in a pretty small town with a somewhat depressed economy.  I've gotten much better prices for items - including bikes - on eBay than I could ever get locally.

rickb
-----
Red Sat-R-Day/Green Gnu
 
A mind is not a vessel to be filled,
it is a fire to be ignited.
  -- Plutarch

----- Original Message ----
From: J M <john63401@gmail.com>
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:36:03 AM
Subject: [Yak] Help me sell Ti mt bike?

I have a excellent shape Ti mt bike that i no longer want.  I want to
sell it and use funds to buy an NWT.

Whats best way to sell such a bike?  eBay maybe?

It cost me $1400 new abt 4 years ago.  Want $700

And its NOT hardly ever been ridden!

Advice?
_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak




From faunt at panix.com  Tue Jul 11 11:58:20 2006
From: faunt at panix.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604)
Date: Tue Jul 11 11:58:37 2006
Subject: [Yak] And serendipity- Was Hub vs Derailleur
Message-ID: <200607111658.k6BGwKl04114@panix2.panix.com>

BTW, yesterday, I saw a BF NWT with the Dual-drive at my local grocery
market, and had a good conversation with the owner (whose name I
didn't get).  His is 5 years old, and he's had no problem.  He also
had the handlebar setup that I think I want, so....

If I could get to the web pages behind the BF home page, I'd be ready
to finalize my order, I think.

73, doug

From sdrtha at insightbb.com  Tue Jul 11 14:07:36 2006
From: sdrtha at insightbb.com (Mark Atwell)
Date: Tue Jul 11 14:07:51 2006
Subject: [Yak] Help me sell Ti mt bike?
In-Reply-To: <25ddd8de0607110936i3edf3c86i80ccb7b41a9756cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25ddd8de0607110936i3edf3c86i80ccb7b41a9756cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c73ae9c70607111207m7aed7446y46874fc528ea3caa@mail.gmail.com>

I'd at least describe the bike a little more thoroughly here since some of
us ride and all of us know folks who "need" another bike!
Type, model, size, group, etc thank you...
Snake

On 7/11/06, J M <john63401@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have a excellent shape Ti mt bike that i no longer want.  I want to
> sell it and use funds to buy an NWT.
>
> Whats best way to sell such a bike?  eBay maybe?
>
> It cost me $1400 new abt 4 years ago.  Want $700
>
> And its NOT hardly ever been ridden!
>
> Advice?
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
>
From john63401 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 14:16:12 2006
From: john63401 at gmail.com (J M)
Date: Tue Jul 11 14:16:24 2006
Subject: [Yak] Ti mt bike specs
Message-ID: <25ddd8de0607111216i1b2116a8u1f4e539c726e8dac@mail.gmail.com>

OK I had to run home and get the invoice on Ti mt bike I have for sale

It reads:

52 ti frame w/Shimano LX group and Surly front fork

Brand is Habanero

Web page link is below

http://tinyurl.com/m7l8v
From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 11 16:01:47 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Tue Jul 11 16:02:19 2006
Subject: [Yak] E-bay and scams
Message-ID: <20060711210147.88046.qmail@web34707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If you do advertise your bike on E-bay, be prepared
for Nigerian type scams. This is the scam where they
offer to buy your bike for an offshore customer who is
willing to pay you far more than you are asking for
your bike. You, or course, are to remit the difference
via Western Union (to avoid the postal inspectors) or
deliver it in person to their agent who will call at
your door for the cash. Of course, the official
looking instrument that they send you is totally
worthless, so you are out the bike and the money you
fronted and have a very handsome, probably with the
word "certified" stamped on it prominently, piece of
education to post on your wall. Remember, if it sounds
too good to be true, it is. Despite how ridiculous
this whole scam sounds, it is remarkable the number of
people who still go for it.
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CA
From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Tue Jul 11 16:07:39 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Tue Jul 11 16:21:05 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <44B3B1B6.8090004@ithaca.edu>
References: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
	<20060710162815.D2175@phred.org>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20060710222645.059e1360@pop.spamcop.net>
	<200607110334.k6B3YTl03391@panix2.panix.com>
	<44B3B1B6.8090004@ithaca.edu>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060711165318.061009f0@pop.spamcop.net>

At 10:12 7/11/2006, Andrejs Ozolins wrote:

>When I arrived at the start and assembled my Pocket Rocket, the 
>cable out of the left shifter was badly bent and the wire of the 
>housing was sticking out in bits.

Then Friday is using (or you are using) the special (and finicky) 
longitudinal-wire extra-rigid cable housing that is necessary for 
index-shifting derailleurs. I had the same problem with my rear 
derailleur cable after closing the lid of the Travelcase on it, as I 
reported on this list a few weeks ago. The tiny longitudinal wires 
slip and slide past each other and can even work their way out 
through the hole in the ferrule and cable stop. Is the special cable 
housing really necessary for the internally-geared hub? I bet not, 
and that the garden-variety cable housing with the helical wire would 
work just fine and would avoid this problem.

>If you couldn't get the shifting to work at all, you'd be in low 
>gear only. I guess you could go a ways in low. Maybe you could use 
>some tape and wire to pull the rod out and get it stuck in a higher 
>gear. So, there are ways to soldier on, just like with derailer systems.

Oh -- then I was wrong in my earlier message. If the cable on a 
clickbox hub doesn't pull, the hub defaults to low gear, unlike the 
pullchain hubs (both Sachs/SRAM and Sturmey), which default to high 
gear. Low gear is preferable, but you really want them all.

>This last was the only problem I've ever had in my life with an 
>internal gear hub -- and I spent thousands of miles, back when, in 
>the Sturmey Archer world. They just never failed. I hear from others 
>that they can fail and I believe it, of course. But, my experience 
>is that they are by far less trouble than derailers.

I've had a few Sturmey failures over the (many) years, but yes, 
well-designed internal hubs -- both Sachs and SRAM count as such -- 
are far less trouble than derailleurs. Most internal hub failures, 
like yours, have to do with the cable rather than the hub itself. If 
the hub is given few drops of Phil oil through the hollow end of the 
axle every 1K miles and rebuilt every 20K miles or so you probably 
won't have any problems with it.

John S. Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com (replace " *at* " with "@")

http://www.bikexprt.com/ 
From rickbsgu at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 11 16:39:27 2006
From: rickbsgu at yahoo.com (Rick Berger)
Date: Tue Jul 11 16:39:39 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <200607111648.k6BGmJ305004@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20060711213927.17260.qmail@web56009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

The only thing that's fragile on the dual is the screw-post, which is made of aluminum.  Bends easily.

Good news is it bends back, easily.  Bad news is it bends in the first place (I always remove it before packing - except when I forget...)

I got a spare from BF.

Haven't had any problems with anything else, including the plastic clickbox.

rickb
------
Red Sat-R-Day/Green Gnu
 
A mind is not a vessel to be filled,
it is a fire to be ignited.
  -- Plutarch

----- Original Message ----
From: Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 <faunt@panix.com>
To: aozolins@ithaca.edu
Cc: yak@bikefriday.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:48:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur

   Message: 4
   Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:12:06 -0400
   From: Andrejs Ozolins <aozolins@ithaca.edu>

   Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote:
   > OK.  If the rod-operated clickbox is a problem (I have no idea what that
   > is, really), is this something that incapacitates the bike? Or does it
   > just mean the hub is stuck in a single gear, but works? 

   Doug,

   I guess I should say that that click box really is a problem. But, not a 
   terminal one.

   If you couldn't get the shifting to work at all, you'd be in low gear 
   only. I guess you could go a ways in low. Maybe you could use some tape 
   and wire to pull the rod out and get it stuck in a higher gear. So, 
   there are ways to soldier on, just like with derailer systems.

Thanks for the explanation.
It also looks as if these are relatively inexpensive and small parts,
so actually carrying spares might be a good strategy.

   So, I like my setup very much. But, I don't have any experience with a 
   front derailer Bike Friday. I won't order one until I learn a lot more 
   -- about ease of folding and packing, need for adjustment after travel, 
   etc. But, the thought of losing some of the pounds in that ingot of a 
   rear hub certainly is appealing and I may investigate the alternatives 
   more one day.

I'm leaning towards the dual-drive, in fact.  If the internal bits are
reliable, and it's just the shifter bits that are vulnerable, then
carrying spares would address that.

73, doug





_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak




From deanwisleder at insightbb.com  Tue Jul 11 17:19:48 2006
From: deanwisleder at insightbb.com (Dean Wisleder)
Date: Tue Jul 11 17:21:04 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
In-Reply-To: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <001401c6a538$3c204fe0$6600a8c0@DEANSLAPTOP>

Doug, it sounds like you are zeroing in on the Dual Drive, and I'm not
trying to change your mind.  Here is a summary of my experience for what
it's worth.

I put over 20,000 miles on a NWT with the older 3x7 hub with the little
shift chain rather than the newer shift box.  The hub was NEVER a problem
except the extra little hassle of not having a quick-release mechanism when
fixing a flat.

I now have 6,500 miles on my Air Glide with adjustable dropouts and the
Rohloff 14-speed hub.  I can't imagine anything shifting any easier than the
Rohloff.  I started with Rohloff conventional dropouts and had Bike Friday
convert to the adjustable dropouts so I could dispense with the chain
tensioner.  I don't recommend adjustable dropouts on an 'air' bike.  They
MIGHT work better on a NWT.

I also started with the internal shifting mechanism and had Rohloff convert
to the external shift box.  I like the external arrangement better, but it
pretty much eliminates use of a rear rack with stays running to the chain
stays.  Either a rack mounted to the seatpost or a large saddle bag (my
choice) works better.

The Rohloff shifter is designed to mount only on a mountain style bar.  I
have experimented with two different methods of mounting the Rohloff shifter
on a bike with drop bars.  I prefer a bar-end arrangement instead of a stub
on the stem.  Either works.

Dean Wisleder
'05 Air Glide
From Barberslinger at aol.com  Tue Jul 11 21:06:19 2006
From: Barberslinger at aol.com (Barberslinger@aol.com)
Date: Tue Jul 11 21:06:46 2006
Subject: [Yak] Tandem for Sale
Message-ID: <4fe.310aac1.31e5b31b@aol.com>

I'm a new to the Yak Line.  Is there a site to list a used Santana  Tandem 
for sale?
Bernie Esslinger
From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Wed Jul 12 07:34:43 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Wed Jul 12 07:45:18 2006
Subject: Headsets (was RE: [Yak] new-to-me Family Tandem questions)
In-Reply-To: <EDEEKCNDCPOHJBFHBPMHCEJMCDAA.vincemac@tiscali.co.uk>
References: <20060707203923.76303.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com>
	<EDEEKCNDCPOHJBFHBPMHCEJMCDAA.vincemac@tiscali.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060711235318.060fb960@pop.spamcop.net>

At 17:06 7/7/2006, Vince Mackenzie wrote:

> From the sounds of that frame you have the self destruction headset on it as
>well.Is it one of the tandems that only splits in the middle? If so you may
>as well get a new set of forks with a threaded headset and bosses.

I've discussed this issue with a few people off-list. Vince has 
indicated that this is the YST headset that has a needle-bearing 
lower race, and an upper race that attaches with a clamp around the 
fork steerer that threads onto the top race. My NWT also has one of 
these headsets, though it is holding up OK.

My friend Sheldon Brown has suggested a replacement strategy that 
does not require a new fork: use any unthreaded (Aheadset-type) 
headset but hold the top race in place with a seatpost clamp. When 
installing and tightening the clamp, press down hard on the 
handlebars with both hands, then press with one hand as you tighten 
the clamp around the fork steerer (or get someone else to help you).

On a bicycle which uses a conventional Aheadset-type stem (not a 
Friday unless you want the handlebars *really* low), this approach 
has the advantage that you can adjust the stem up and down the 
steerer tube -- the stem does not transmit the downward force to the 
top of the headset. Sheldon has photos of one of his bikes using this 
trick at http://sheldonbrown.org/iro/index.html

But also note that it the lower headset assembly is the 
heavily-loaded one, and wears out first. You could keep the 
adjustable top assembly of the YST headset, assuming that it still is 
in good condition, and replace the bottom assembly with one from a 
different model of headset.

Using loose bearing balls instead of a bearing retainer increases the 
load capacity of a headset and can even revive one whose races have 
become indented by the balls in a retainer. This trick won't work 
with the needle-bearing lower race of the YST, but it will work with 
most headsets.

John S. Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com (replace " *at* " with "@")

http://www.bikexprt.com/ 
From 9gturns at xmission.com  Wed Jul 12 12:16:43 2006
From: 9gturns at xmission.com (miles2go)
Date: Wed Jul 12 12:17:40 2006
Subject: [Yak] Two tour photos
Message-ID: <000b01c6a5d6$f60d02b0$0200a8c0@D8400>

I need to calibrate my monitor yet, so these might be off to a degree. 
However, here are a couple of NWT and trailer shots taken on our tour of 
Switzerland that I'd have a hard time recreating around the neighborhood.
http://www.pbase.com/image/63242549   http://www.pbase.com/image/63243826

Derailleurs and such if ya care.

Cheers,

Ron & Nancy
South Ogden, Utah 

From tony at raven-family.com  Wed Jul 12 12:54:40 2006
From: tony at raven-family.com (Tony Raven)
Date: Wed Jul 12 12:57:25 2006
Subject: [Yak] E-bay and scams 
In-Reply-To: <20060712170128.4506E1946FB@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060712170128.4506E1946FB@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <44B53760.9000204@raven-family.com>

Another aspect of the scam, at least in the UK, is the cheque they send 
in payment is drawn on an overseas bank.  In a few days, because of the 
way the banking system works, the cheque gets cleared and you may think 
wonderful, and send the money order off.  Some weeks later the cheque 
works its way to its destination and back as a dud whereupon the bank 
reclaims the money it credited to the account.  Its a smart scam but 
beware of anything on Ebay that looks too good to be true - it probably is.

Tony


>
>  Message: 3 Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:01:47 -0700 (PDT)
>  From: charles voigtsberger <charles_e_voigtsberger@yahoo.com>
>  Subject: [Yak] E-bay and scams
>
>  If you do advertise your bike on E-bay, be prepared for Nigerian type
>  scams. This is the scam where they offer to buy your bike for an
>  offshore customer who is willing to pay you far more than you are
>  asking for your bike. You, or course, are to remit the difference via
>  Western Union (to avoid the postal inspectors) or deliver it in
>  person to their agent who will call at your door for the cash. Of
>  course, the official looking instrument that they send you is totally
>  worthless, so you are out the bike and the money you fronted and
>  have a very handsome, probably with the word "certified" stamped on
>  it prominently, piece of education to post on your wall. Remember, if
>  it sounds too good to be true, it is. Despite how ridiculous this
>  whole scam sounds, it is remarkable the number of people who still go
>  for it. Chuck Voigtsberger Ventura CA
>



From cguerinj at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 12 13:34:15 2006
From: cguerinj at yahoo.com (Jay & Cherie Guerin)
Date: Wed Jul 12 13:34:45 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: tandem for sale
In-Reply-To: <20060712170128.4506E1946FB@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <20060712183415.19999.qmail@web55808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Try http://www.tandemmag.com/classified/

I'm a new to the Yak Line.  Is there a site to list a
used Santana  
Tandem 
for sale?
Bernie Esslinger

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From mblock at optushome.com.au  Wed Jul 12 15:37:31 2006
From: mblock at optushome.com.au (Michael Block)
Date: Wed Jul 12 15:38:43 2006
Subject: [Yak] web site of Europe trip
Message-ID: <852D9438-432A-44BD-9B71-760A9C1A00A8@optushome.com.au>

It's up and running, off to the Tour tomorrow. We did Tourmelet  
yesterday:-)

http://web.mac.com/deepthoughtpsych/iWeb/Site/Welcome.html



regards

Michael Block

          /\                 /\
       _/   \/\             /   \
_/             \/\       /
    /\               \---/
   /  \  / \        o
   /  \  /  \      ' #,
     |      |    ( )/-(  )

From xhefty at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 12 16:31:17 2006
From: xhefty at earthlink.net (Richard B. Clarke)
Date: Wed Jul 12 16:31:33 2006
Subject: [Yak] Hub vs Derailleur
References: <200607101726.k6AHQ1U12602@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <055001c6a5fa$82bba360$6401a8c0@CONSULTIWN63E3>

Doug,

I have a Sachs Internal Hub on my 03 Sat RDay and a 3X7 Hub on my 00 NWT and
both have met my needs.

I would go with an internal Hub if the following:
1. Packing easier to pack and unpack in BF suitcase.
2. Maintainance: easier to maintain especially the new Sachs with the click
box.
3. The ability to shift at a stand still.
4. Nicer Touring set up.

I would go with a front derailleur if the following:

1. Weight front derailleur will save a little weight .
2. Easier to change  rear wheel.  quick release on standard derailleur hub.
3. Parts easier to find.

IMHO.

Richard Clarke
SRD (03)
NWT (00)

From sdrtha at insightbb.com  Wed Jul 12 17:14:00 2006
From: sdrtha at insightbb.com (Mark Atwell)
Date: Wed Jul 12 17:14:21 2006
Subject: [Yak] Two tour photos
In-Reply-To: <000b01c6a5d6$f60d02b0$0200a8c0@D8400>
References: <000b01c6a5d6$f60d02b0$0200a8c0@D8400>
Message-ID: <c73ae9c70607121514t596f9baajcd3685ec0dc484d7@mail.gmail.com>

Wow 9 G, you have a nice nice nice route!!!  I'm forwarding these to my wife
and maybe she'll go touring with me again!
THANKS!
Snake (13 g's but you break it!)
Air Friday

On 7/12/06, miles2go <9gturns@xmission.com> wrote:
>
> I need to calibrate my monitor yet, so these might be off to a degree.
> However, here are a couple of NWT and trailer shots taken on our tour of
> Switzerland that I'd have a hard time recreating around the neighborhood.
> http://www.pbase.com/image/63242549   http://www.pbase.com/image/63243826
>
> Derailleurs and such if ya care.
>
> Cheers(,
>
> Ron & Nancy
> South Ogden, Utah
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
>
From Dustypence at aol.com  Fri Jul 14 15:39:59 2006
From: Dustypence at aol.com (Dustypence@aol.com)
Date: Fri Jul 14 15:40:19 2006
Subject: [Yak] Schraeder Valves
Message-ID: <bbf.13146c.31e95b1f@aol.com>

Someone gave out a website a week or two ago with a link to a company that 
had a lot of neat little bicycle gadgets. I don't recall the reason they gave 
the particular site, but while I was in there I found a little gizmo that is 
supposed to go over the Schraeder and reduce the air loss. I can't find the 
original email or the website, which I thought I had saved in my "favorites", so if 
anyone recalls the website, I would be grateful.

Thanks and happy trails,

Dusty
From bikecox at gmail.com  Sat Jul 15 08:47:01 2006
From: bikecox at gmail.com (Paul Cox)
Date: Sat Jul 15 08:47:28 2006
Subject: [Yak] Bottom Bracket Height
Message-ID: <44B8F1D5.2000909@gmail.com>

I have on order a Bike Friday Tandem Two's Day and wonder how high the 
bottom bracket is from the ground.  My conventional road bike with 27" 
wheels has a height of 10.5" from the center of the bottom bracket to 
the ground.  I am trying to determine how much closer my foot will be to 
the ground on my Two's Day compared to my road bike.  Anyone have an answer?

Thank you.

From vincemac at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Jul 15 11:55:56 2006
From: vincemac at tiscali.co.uk (Vince Mackenzie)
Date: Sat Jul 15 11:53:10 2006
Subject: [Yak] Bottom Bracket Height
In-Reply-To: <44B8F1D5.2000909@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EDEEKCNDCPOHJBFHBPMHMEKMCDAA.vincemac@tiscali.co.uk>

On a 406 wheeled BF it will be about the same as any other touring bike, a
bit higher on a 451 wheeled bike or tandem.
I could go and measure my  bikes but its to hot to venture into the garage
this afternoon!!!!
Vince



I have on order a Bike Friday Tandem Two's Day and wonder how high the
bottom bracket is from the ground.  My conventional road bike with 27"
wheels has a height of 10.5" from the center of the bottom bracket to
the ground.  I am trying to determine how much closer my foot will be to
the ground on my Two's Day compared to my road bike.  Anyone have an answer?

Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak


--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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From jeffryverse at mac.com  Sat Jul 15 14:11:55 2006
From: jeffryverse at mac.com (jeffry buechler)
Date: Sat Jul 15 14:12:20 2006
Subject: [Yak] Dusty-shraeder valve website
Message-ID: <433A44BD-F126-4B13-97EE-334F6AD3DF6F@mac.com>

hi folks.  Dusty, i sent out that email about 2-piece bike flags with  
the website for easy street recumbents.  here's the  url:

http://www.easystreetrecumbents.com/stuff/safety.html

cheers, jeffry
From BradMiter at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 15 14:22:47 2006
From: BradMiter at earthlink.net (Bradford Miter)
Date: Sat Jul 15 14:24:10 2006
Subject: [Yak] Bottom Bracket Height
In-Reply-To: <44B8F1D5.2000909@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002601c6a844$0e609150$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>

My Cannondale Tandem w/700c tires has a bb height of 11 1/2".  My TwosDay
w/20 x 1.75" tires is 11.0".  I would say, "Not to worry".  You may have to
put a lift in your shoe <g>!

Brad Miter

-----Original Message-----
From: yak-bounces@bikefriday.com [mailto:yak-bounces@bikefriday.com] On
Behalf Of Paul Cox
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 9:47 AM
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Subject: [Yak] Bottom Bracket Height


I have on order a Bike Friday Tandem Two's Day and wonder how high the 
bottom bracket is from the ground.  My conventional road bike with 27" 
wheels has a height of 10.5" from the center of the bottom bracket to 
the ground.  I am trying to determine how much closer my foot will be to 
the ground on my Two's Day compared to my road bike.  Anyone have an answer?

Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak

From Dustypence at aol.com  Sat Jul 15 15:45:09 2006
From: Dustypence at aol.com (Dustypence@aol.com)
Date: Sat Jul 15 15:46:42 2006
Subject: [Yak] Dusty-shraeder valve website
Message-ID: <bb8.dab7fb.31eaadd5@aol.com>

That's the one! Thanks a million! It is a nice site!

Happy trails,

Dusty

In a message dated 7/15/06 1:12:36 PM, jeffryverse@mac.com writes:


> hi folks.? Dusty, i sent out that email about 2-piece bike flags with?
> the website for easy street recumbents.? here's the? url:
> 
> http://www.easystreetrecumbents.com/stuff/safety.html
> 
> cheers, jeffry
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
> 

From cguerinj at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 15 17:36:15 2006
From: cguerinj at yahoo.com (Jay & Cherie Guerin)
Date: Sat Jul 15 17:38:03 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: Bottom Bracket Height
In-Reply-To: <20060715170018.A3B95194351@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <20060715223615.13783.qmail@web55811.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

With 451 wheels, BB height on my Ti Lite tandem is
12".  With 406 wheels it would be an inch or so less. 
BB height on a NWT with 406 wheels is 10.5".

From: Paul Cox 

I have on order a Bike Friday Tandem Two's Day and
wonder how high the 
bottom bracket is from the ground.  My conventional
road bike with 27" 
wheels has a height of 10.5" from the center of the
bottom bracket to 
the ground.  I am trying to determine how much closer
my foot will be 
to 
the ground on my Two's Day compared to my road bike. 
Anyone have an 
answer?



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From mrjgrades at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 16 02:01:05 2006
From: mrjgrades at yahoo.com (Joe Imms)
Date: Sun Jul 16 02:01:55 2006
Subject: [Yak] Pack a bike and SQR Tour bag in the suitcase
Message-ID: <20060716070105.27175.qmail@web56708.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi,
    I am taking my bicycle overseas for vacation and I
am practicing packing it.  I have an SQR Tour bag and
I was wondering if anyone has managed to pack this and
the bicycle in the Samsonite Flite case.   I have a
pretty large frame, the second biggest and there seems
to be ample room on the case to stuff in a shirt or
pair of pants here and there, but not enough space to
put in my SQR Tour bag.  Any suggestions?
  I am pretty please with how the bicycle packs, but
it's the other stuff I need to bring that is giving me
something to think about.
Thanks,
Joseph

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From dcwilson at mindspring.com  Sun Jul 16 08:04:28 2006
From: dcwilson at mindspring.com (Douglas C Wilson)
Date: Sun Jul 16 08:07:22 2006
Subject: [Yak] Pack a bike and SQR Tour bag in the suitcase
In-Reply-To: <20060716070105.27175.qmail@web56708.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <20060716070105.27175.qmail@web56708.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44BA395C.1080006@mindspring.com>

Joe,

I travel frequently with a Pocket Crusoe and SQR Tour bag and have never 
worked out a way to fit the bag or my helmet in the suitcase. I have 
fallen back on using the SQR bag with a shoulder strap as one of my 
carry-ons. They do have backpack straps for the SQR bags which I have 
tried. I ended up preferring a shoulder strap but YMMV.

Following some postings on YAK, I started just clipping my helmet on the 
outside of the SQR bag to save valuable internal space and that has 
worked well. It's a good conversation starter as well.

 Overall, I have gone to a minimalist packing for the bike itself. Only 
the Bike Friday in the travel case. With the new 50 lb weight limit, it 
keeps me from accidental excess baggage fees. In my last half-dozen 
trips abroad, I have had it inspected every trip but without incident. 
When I packed more stuff in the suitcase, I did have some problems with 
things getting out of place occasionally. I do suspect that part of this 
is the inspectors becoming more experienced.

Good luck and let us know if you find a good combo that works for you.

Best Regards,
Doug

Joe Imms wrote:
> Hi,
>     I am taking my bicycle overseas for vacation and I
> am practicing packing it.  I have an SQR Tour bag and
> I was wondering if anyone has managed to pack this and
> the bicycle in the Samsonite Flite case.   I have a
> pretty large frame, the second biggest and there seems
> to be ample room on the case to stuff in a shirt or
> pair of pants here and there, but not enough space to
> put in my SQR Tour bag.  Any suggestions?
>   I am pretty please with how the bicycle packs, but
> it's the other stuff I need to bring that is giving me
> something to think about.
> Thanks,
> Joseph
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
>
>   

From sdrtha at insightbb.com  Sun Jul 16 08:30:05 2006
From: sdrtha at insightbb.com (Mark Atwell)
Date: Sun Jul 16 08:30:24 2006
Subject: [Yak] bike tour suggestions
Message-ID: <c73ae9c70607160630t668df878vb6c158a22fcb4d56@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to take my wife on a luxury bike tour with days of 30-40 miles and
nice food/accomodations starting in mid-September for a week.  Europe would
be nice.  I leave it to you intrepid yaksters to give me some advice.
Snake
Air Friday

shhh, don't tell her, it's a surprise
From alex at phred.org  Sun Jul 16 09:16:05 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Sun Jul 16 09:16:22 2006
Subject: [Yak] Pack a bike and SQR Tour bag in the suitcase
In-Reply-To: <20060716070105.27175.qmail@web56708.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <20060716070105.27175.qmail@web56708.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060716071444.H55927@phred.org>

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006, Joe Imms wrote:
>    I am taking my bicycle overseas for vacation and I
> am practicing packing it.  I have an SQR Tour bag and
> I was wondering if anyone has managed to pack this and
> the bicycle in the Samsonite Flite case.   I have a
> pretty large frame, the second biggest and there seems
> to be ample room on the case to stuff in a shirt or
> pair of pants here and there, but not enough space to
> put in my SQR Tour bag.  Any suggestions?

I've never used an SQR Tour bag, but I often travel with 
a Carradice saddle bag and the SQR for it.  I remove the 
SQR frame from the bag and then the bag folds flat.  The 
SQR frame is small enough to tuck in among things.

I've stopped packing many accessories in the suitcase along
with the bike since the bike by itself and the packed suitcase
usually weighs close to 50lbs (the new airline weight limit).

alex
From w_h_patrick at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 16 12:46:22 2006
From: w_h_patrick at yahoo.com (Bill Patrick)
Date: Sun Jul 16 12:46:39 2006
Subject: [Yak] Touring on a Pocket Llama
Message-ID: <20060716174622.33049.qmail@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Anybody ever put a rear rack on a Pocket Llama and used it for touring? Any comments about this vs. a NWT where the roads might be rough or even gravel?

Thanks,
Bill

 			
---------------------------------
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From bicycleflyer at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 16 12:54:33 2006
From: bicycleflyer at yahoo.com (Paul Patterson)
Date: Sun Jul 16 12:54:42 2006
Subject: [Yak] SQR Bag
Message-ID: <20060716175433.59804.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com>

I have traveled/Packed my SQR-Tour bag several times. I just leaned on mine and collapsed it. There is a definite crease in the stiffener after wards. It does not affect the bag in a negative way. The suitcase I use is smaller than the flite case, so I don't think you would have any problems. I no longer use the tour on my BF because I bought my BF it's own bag (see below).
   
  I think one poster's idea of adding a shoulder strap and using it as carry on is a good idea too. I did this when I used the Tour bag my regular, non-folding bike and it worked well.  
   
  I decided a while back to get my BF it's own dedicated Carradice. I eventually settled on the Super-C Saddle pack. I chose this for it's large enough, but not-too-large 8.5 liter volume and the fact that it will collapse and fit in my suitcase easily. Another reason for choosing this bag was the lack of any mounting hardware to fiddle with when packing. It just straps to the seat rails. Couldn't get any easier. This bag has worked fine for me ever since. I have pics of the Super-C saddle pack mounted on my Pocket Rocket if anyone is interested.
   
  I'm surprised the folks at Bike-Friday have not looked into offering some of the Carradice bags. If you want the convienance of of having a rear rack bag, but don't want (or cannot) mount a rack, these are great alternatives. They lend themselves well to  the art of folding and packing bicycles. 
   
  Paul in Cincy

 		
---------------------------------
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From tony at raven-family.com  Sun Jul 16 13:31:20 2006
From: tony at raven-family.com (Tony Raven)
Date: Sun Jul 16 13:32:06 2006
Subject: [Yak] bike tour suggestions 
In-Reply-To: <20060716170035.2D32F1943F3@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060716170035.2D32F1943F3@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <44BA85F8.9030506@raven-family.com>

I would recommend, of all the European countries, Switzerland.  
Switzerland has a high quality and comprehensive network of cycle routes 
away from traffic, the trains and ferries don't blink at the thought of 
a bicycle and are all joined up and the valley floors are flat while 
surrounded by high mountains and chocolate box scenery. If you are 
energetic you can cycle up the side valleys or if not, take the train up 
and cycle back down.  Ditto the passes.  The food is not that exciting 
in the German speaking parts but the Italian and French parts have good 
cuisine.  Have a look at http://www.cycling-in-switzerland.ch for loads 
of information - it includes a ride report from a couple of Bike 
Fridayers.  
http://www.cycling-in-switzerland.ch/11_travel_reports/frameset_reiseberichte.html

Tony



>
>  From: "Mark Atwell" <sdrtha@insightbb.com>
>  Subject: [Yak] bike tour suggestions
>
>  I'd like to take my wife on a luxury bike tour with days of 30-40
>  miles and nice food/accomodations starting in mid-September for a
>  week.  Europe would be nice.  I leave it to you intrepid yaksters to
>  give me some advice. Snake Air Friday
>



From sachshm at cox.net  Sun Jul 16 13:31:58 2006
From: sachshm at cox.net (Harvey M Sachs)
Date: Sun Jul 16 13:33:05 2006
Subject: [Yak] Bottom Bracket Height
Message-ID: <44BA861E.8090204@cox.net>

The conventional wisdom is that lower bottom bracket heights are generally an advantage. But there are exceptions:  Bikes which want higher BB:
--> criterium racing bikes, for pedal clearance in tight turns, and as an unintended consequence of short wheelbase (bringing front wheel back pushes bb up to clear down tube on conventional bikes).
--> track bikes (which usually use 165 mm cranks, for the same reasons as above).
--> Mountain bikes, also for clearance.

Before compact frame designs, very small frames generally had both high bb, and long top tubes; giving small riders with short torsos both impossible standovers and a real stretch forward to the bars.  Dumb.

Low BB are said to roll better (center of gravity is marginally lower, FWIW), give lower stand-over, etc.

I've ridden lots of bikes in the past few decades, and have come to worry a great deal about equivalent top tube length, but very little about seat tube length or BB height. I do watch straddle height.  My current fleet range from 56 cm to 62 cm seat tube length (ctc) but all are about 57 cm top tube. But, your mileage may vary.

At least the first generation Cannondale tandems were more than a bit strange about this; the rear bb was even higher than the front, presumably to help the stoker see over/around the pilot.
None of these things should matter for a BF, which faces other design decisions. 

harvey sachs

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brad Miter wrote:
My Cannondale Tandem w/700c tires has a bb height of 11 1/2".  My TwosDay
w/20 x 1.75" tires is 11.0".  I would say, "Not to worry".  You may have to
put a lift in your shoe <g>!

Brad Miter

-----Original Message-----
From: yak-bounces@bikefriday.com [mailto:yak-bounces@bikefriday.com] On
Behalf Of Paul Cox
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 9:47 AM
To: 
Subject: [Yak] Bottom Bracket Height


I have on order a Bike Friday Tandem Two's Day and wonder how high the 
bottom bracket is from the ground.  My conventional road bike with 27" 
wheels has a height of 10.5" from the center of the bottom bracket to 
the ground.  I am trying to determine how much closer my foot will be to 
the ground on my Two's Day compared to my road bike.  Anyone have an answer?

Thank you.

From rick at angell.tv  Mon Jul 17 12:25:03 2006
From: rick at angell.tv (rick@angell.tv)
Date: Mon Jul 17 12:25:26 2006
Subject: [Yak] bike tour suggestions
Message-ID: <20060717172503.782821228F5@prior>


I've done Butterfield & Robinson trips in France and Italy and had a great 
time.  I haven't done a Backroads trip in Europe, but if my experience in the 
U.S. is a guide, their Euro trips should be great, too.  B & R is very 
luxurious.  I like to book trips one level of difficulty up from the bottom.  
That's sufficient to insure a good group of clients, but doesn't lock you into 
epic rides every day.  Be sure to pack tubes and tires, as they probably don't 
carry 451's in the support van.  September is a great time to ride, both for 
weather, nice but not too hot, and traffic, since the locals are back to 
work/school.  Have fun.

Rick


 From: "Mark Atwell" <sdrtha@insightbb.com>
>  Subject: [Yak] bike tour suggestions
>
>  I'd like to take my wife on a luxury bike tour with days of 30-40
>  miles and nice food/accomodations starting in mid-September for a
>  week.  Europe would be nice.  I leave it to you intrepid yaksters to
>  give me some advice. Snake Air Friday

From sdrtha at insightbb.com  Mon Jul 17 19:55:49 2006
From: sdrtha at insightbb.com (Mark Atwell)
Date: Mon Jul 17 19:56:34 2006
Subject: [Yak] sizing
Message-ID: <c73ae9c70607171755r32bf30ebt48a22b723dc992dc@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, anyone know why the BF website preowned Fridays have NO sizing info???
Thanks,
Snake

-- 
If you had Skype we'd be talking instead of typing!
From roulez-libre at animail.net  Mon Jul 17 20:18:45 2006
From: roulez-libre at animail.net (bikefridaywalter)
Date: Mon Jul 17 20:20:24 2006
Subject: [Yak] bike tour suggestions
Message-ID: <25BAC732CF46BDB44B9C5EC70E1C37B9@roulez-libre.animail.net>

Cycle Oregon!


---
EAT, RIDE AND BE MERRY!
contact me: http://tinyurl.com/5xqj8
BF World Map: http://frappr.com/bikefriday 


Stand up for puppies! Send a special "thank you"
to PA's governor for helping to stop puppy mills:
http://go.care2.com/puppymills

http://www.Care2.com  Free e-mail. 100MB storage.  Helps nonprofits. 
From roulez-libre at animail.net  Mon Jul 17 20:22:53 2006
From: roulez-libre at animail.net (bikefridaywalter)
Date: Mon Jul 17 20:22:34 2006
Subject: [Yak] sizing
Message-ID: <FAF5176DCC48B244784A59E237E39F6D@roulez-libre.animail.net>

People were taking the sizing info we had as hard and fast rules and it was discouraging more sales than it encouraged.  All you have to do is call us to find out how it fits. :)

Walter


---
EAT, RIDE AND BE MERRY!
contact me: http://tinyurl.com/5xqj8
BF World Map: http://frappr.com/bikefriday 


Stand up for puppies! Send a special "thank you"
to PA's governor for helping to stop puppy mills:
http://go.care2.com/puppymills

http://www.Care2.com  Free e-mail. 100MB storage.  Helps nonprofits. 
From 9gturns at xmission.com  Mon Jul 17 20:31:04 2006
From: 9gturns at xmission.com (miles2go)
Date: Mon Jul 17 20:31:29 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: bike tour suggestions
References: <20060716170035.2D32F1943F3@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c6aa09$dabfac60$0200a8c0@D8400>

Someplace in Italy is what I'd be considering.  Switzerland has so much 
going for it but a truly "nice" room is going to cost you considerably and 
the food in some of the more stunning places is also pricey for what you 
get.  Dessert, scenery and bike-ability is fantastically dialed in though. 
We'll be going back one of these days.



We're tied to June/July/Aug since Nancy is an Elementary School Teacher.  If 
September were viable for us then we'd be looking at the weather synopsis in 
Italy and France.  And if a romantic surprise is what you're after, what 
could be better than that?  I suppose someplace like Hawaii might do.  Rain 
would be down but the temps close to 90.



This may help in the weather forecasting regard. 
http://www.weatherbase.com/  It's accurate in our Schweiz experience, 
including the ten degree difference between the Locarno and Zurich areas.


Have fun deciding.


Ron
South Ogden, Utah (fer now)
www.fullyloadedtouring.com
http://miles2go.crazyguyonabike.com


------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:30:05 -0400
From: "Mark Atwell" <sdrtha@insightbb.com>
Subject: [Yak] bike tour suggestions
To: "Bike Friday List" <yak@bikefriday.com>

I'd like to take my wife on a luxury bike tour with days of 30-40 miles and
nice food/accomodations starting in mid-September for a week.  Europe would
be nice.  I leave it to you intrepid yaksters to give me some advice.
Snake
Air Friday

shhh, don't tell her, it's a surprise

------------------------------


From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 17 23:10:24 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Mon Jul 17 23:14:44 2006
Subject: [Yak] Renting a bike in Nice?
References: <BAY113-DAV5F4B56ECC14D25DCABD54D3630@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A85ECA56-AD79-4776-9460-6C6428C82960@yahoo.com>

> Yaksters,
One of our fold, Nigel, would like to know if he can rent a BF for  
his girlfriend in Nice (France) in September.
If you have any clues on that please write to nigelnet@msn.com
BTW Nigel is featured on our Tour de France page -  hilarious reading  
'I've got a real bike at home - honest'.
See http://www.bikefriday.com/tdf
He also has impressive music video and film creds... http:// 
www.nigeldick.com

From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Tue Jul 18 02:14:46 2006
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Tue Jul 18 02:15:40 2006
Subject: [Yak] nasty virus thingies
Message-ID: <44BC8A66.4090706@axelrod.plus.com>

Norton just told me there was something very nasty in
that spam email.  Do friday run a spam filtering service ?
Its not friday's fault but I think its worth them running
a virus filter on all outgoing mail.  I run a mailman server
myself and I run SpamAssasin which catches most of the junk
but AFAIK its not a virus catcher (though most mail viruses
are likely to be attached to mails that will be caught as spam -
as far as I know it has no way to update filter patterns for
known virues like say Norton has).
There must be a product designed for this purpose.

Is someone from friday reading and can reply on this ?

Why does life have these stupid malevolent people in (no, I know
nobody knows).

andy
From bikenno at xs4all.nl  Tue Jul 18 04:36:11 2006
From: bikenno at xs4all.nl (bikenno@xs4all.nl)
Date: Tue Jul 18 04:37:44 2006
Subject: [Yak] Luxury cycling in the Netherlands 
Message-ID: <23226.82.94.26.233.1153215371.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>

Your own floating hotel traveling with you in the dutch cargo canals (
from the days combustion-powered trucks were not yet ruling the transport
world )
and sailing some of the rivers and lakes while you enjoy cycling the
countryside in the knowledge your hotel is waiting for you at the end of
the day in some pitoresque village oo town.

No hassle of daily packing luggage, loading your bicycle and look for a
hotel or campsite in the evening ( which is nice in it's own right .... )
all of your belongings sail along with you through the dutch countryside
with it's hostoric villages, castles and ancient harbours.
( Hanze towns, the former economic liasons / coopertions of trading towns
in western Europe from as south as the Netherlands and as east as Russia
and the Baltic states, everywhere a cargo ship could land )

Have a look at : www.bikebarge.com  or www.cyclotours.nl

Good luck, safe cycling, bicycling is quality-time !!!

Enno Roosink Amsterdam, Bike Friday Aficionado since 1995.

From jkeenan0407 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 18 09:05:15 2006
From: jkeenan0407 at yahoo.com (Jkeenan(Yahoo Account))
Date: Tue Jul 18 09:05:41 2006
Subject: [Yak] From Down Unduh..and it's not Lynette
Message-ID: <004d01c6aa73$3289f220$dbbca043@joseph447814c1>

Carrinm is a regular on www.bikejournal.com and posted this to our Metric Club :

7/15
Carrinm posted this to the Metric Club on www.bikejournal.com   

K: 309.6
T: 12:10:15
TT: 14:20:00
E: 1909

Longest ride to date by a whole 2 kms. A classic Western Australia winter ride - clear sky - cold start - then warming up to high 60's. Flat for 1st 135 kms and then into the hills for continual rollers until the end. 3.5 hours riding in the dark. New Bike Friday Pocket Rocket ran well - as quick as the roadies. Loved the dynamo lighting too. 

From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Tue Jul 18 09:00:16 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Tue Jul 18 09:25:06 2006
Subject: [Yak] Luxury cycling in the Netherlands 
In-Reply-To: <23226.82.94.26.233.1153215371.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
References: <23226.82.94.26.233.1153215371.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060718095716.0300a750@pop.spamcop.net>

At 05:36 7/18/2006, bikenno@xs4all.nl wrote:

>Your own floating hotel traveling with you in the dutch cargo canals (
>from the days combustion-powered trucks were not yet ruling the transport
>world )

Ah, but unless the barges are still being towed by animals (or by 
semi-enslaved people, as in the famous Song of the Volga Boatmen), 
they too are combustion-powered these days... :-)

John S. Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com (replace " *at* " with "@")

http://www.bikexprt.com/ 
From m at ttjarvis.com  Tue Jul 18 10:40:28 2006
From: m at ttjarvis.com (Matthew Jarvis)
Date: Tue Jul 18 10:40:44 2006
Subject: [Yak] nasty virus thingies
In-Reply-To: <44BC8A66.4090706@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <44BC8A66.4090706@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <34091.66.224.46.90.1153237228.squirrel@apache.willamette.net>

We do run a virus scanner, called amavis. It's updated nightly.

In case it got installed and you don't know it (with Linux stuff, ya never
know), on your mail server try:

ps -ef|grep amavis

Matt Jarvis
IT Manager
Bike Friday


> Norton just told me there was something very nasty in
> that spam email.  Do friday run a spam filtering service ?
> Its not friday's fault but I think its worth them running
> a virus filter on all outgoing mail.  I run a mailman server
> myself and I run SpamAssasin which catches most of the junk
> but AFAIK its not a virus catcher (though most mail viruses
> are likely to be attached to mails that will be caught as spam -
> as far as I know it has no way to update filter patterns for
> known virues like say Norton has).
> There must be a product designed for this purpose.
>
> Is someone from friday reading and can reply on this ?
>
> Why does life have these stupid malevolent people in (no, I know
> nobody knows).
>
> andy
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
>

From alex at phred.org  Tue Jul 18 10:45:13 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue Jul 18 10:45:21 2006
Subject: [Yak] nasty virus thingies
In-Reply-To: <44BC8A66.4090706@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <44BC8A66.4090706@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <20060718084334.O25789@phred.org>

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006, Andy Heath wrote:
> Norton just told me there was something very nasty in
> that spam email.  Do friday run a spam filtering service ?
> Its not friday's fault but I think its worth them running
> a virus filter on all outgoing mail.

Most virus email won't make it through mailing list software.  They
work around this by emailing people directly.  If anyone on the YAK
list has your name in their address book and gets a virus then their
machine will send the virus on to you.  The same is true of any of
your friends who aren't on YAK.

Almost all virus email forges the From line (using yet another address
in the address book), so tracing these things can be difficult.  I 
just delete the email and move along.

alex
From jym at econet.org  Tue Jul 18 12:30:22 2006
From: jym at econet.org (Jym Dyer)
Date: Tue Jul 18 12:31:22 2006
Subject: [Yak] nasty virus thingies
In-Reply-To: Matt Jarvis' message of "Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:40:28 PDT."
References: <34091.66.224.46.90.1153237228.squirrel@apache.willamette.net> 
Message-ID: <Jym.18Jul2006.44bd1a90@econet.org>

=v= I don't recall getting spam via this list, with or without
a virus.  So I wonder one of two things:

  o Did it actually not go via this list, but was instead one
    of those viruses that collects addresses and forges the
    "To:" and "From:" fields to make them seem familiar?

  o Or did it just get caught in my own spam filter?

    <_Jym_>
From pdegroo at toronto.ca  Tue Jul 18 12:31:34 2006
From: pdegroo at toronto.ca (Peter De Groot)
Date: Tue Jul 18 12:31:57 2006
Subject: [Yak] nasty virus thingies (Away until July 24)
Message-ID: <s4bce2c7.086@gwia.toronto.ca>

I am away on vacation and will be returning on July 24.  If the matter
is urgent, please contact Daniel Egan (degan@toronto.ca).
From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Tue Jul 18 12:45:57 2006
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Tue Jul 18 12:46:05 2006
Subject: [Yak] nasty virus thingies
In-Reply-To: <Jym.18Jul2006.44bd1a90@econet.org>
References: <34091.66.224.46.90.1153237228.squirrel@apache.willamette.net>
	<Jym.18Jul2006.44bd1a90@econet.org>
Message-ID: <44BD1E55.3070105@axelrod.plus.com>

well I saw it come in with the [Yak] and looked at it then
immediately deleted it.  The moment I deleted it Norton sprang
up and said "blah blah ..." - I just dod what norton told me
to without checking which email it was - I just presumed.
Now its deleted so I can't check.

Could be either of the two possibilities below.
I don't have any spam filters running on the mailbox
my yak mail comes in to.

andy

> =v= I don't recall getting spam via this list, with or without
> a virus.  So I wonder one of two things:
> 
>   o Did it actually not go via this list, but was instead one
>     of those viruses that collects addresses and forges the
>     "To:" and "From:" fields to make them seem familiar?
> 
>   o Or did it just get caught in my own spam filter?
> 
>     <_Jym_>
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
> 
> 

From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Tue Jul 18 11:27:04 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Tue Jul 18 20:36:34 2006
Subject: [Yak] nasty virus thingies
In-Reply-To: <20060718084334.O25789@phred.org>
References: <44BC8A66.4090706@axelrod.plus.com>
	<20060718084334.O25789@phred.org>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060718122521.03092eb0@pop.spamcop.net>

At 11:45 7/18/2006, alex wetmore wrote:
Almost all virus email forges the From line (using yet another address
>in the address book), so tracing these things can be difficult.  I 
>just delete the email and move along.

And delete the attached file which contains the virus. You may have 
to do that separately, depending on your e-mail software. An 
up-to-date virus scanner will find and delete most such files.

John S. Allen
7 University Park
Waltham, MA  02453-1523  USA
781 891-9307
jsallen@bikexprt.com
http://www.bikexprt.com 
From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Tue Jul 18 20:39:27 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Tue Jul 18 20:50:27 2006
Subject: [Yak] nasty virus thingies (Away until July 24)
In-Reply-To: <s4bce2c7.086@gwia.toronto.ca>
References: <s4bce2c7.086@gwia.toronto.ca>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060718213732.05b72c80@pop.spamcop.net>

Ah, and now nasty out-of-the-office thingies too :-) At least Yak 
reins them in rather than echoing them back and forth hundreds of 
times, like another list I've been on...

At 13:31 7/18/2006, Peter De Groot wrote:

>I am away on vacation and will be returning on July 24.  If the matter
>is urgent, please contact Daniel Egan (degan@toronto.ca).

John S. "ain't technology wonderful" Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com (replace " *at* " with "@")

http://www.bikexprt.com/ 
From trevay at massbike.org  Wed Jul 19 09:41:05 2006
From: trevay at massbike.org (Tom Revay)
Date: Wed Jul 19 09:42:03 2006
Subject: [Yak] Can fender brackets be fixed or replaced?
Message-ID: <200607191041050724.03C0885C@localhost>

Yaksters --

The fender brackets on my New World Tourist have undergone some unfortunate flexing through folding and stashing in trunks of cars, etc.  The brackets are strips of aluminum, and unlike steel, aluminum is a brittle metal that sustains permanent damage when it is bent while cold.

My rear fender bracket now has a crack running through it, and it no longer supports the fender above the wheel.  I've removed it from the bike so as to avoid having it fall off on the road, and I am buying a new set of fenders.

But I'd like to know if this part can be repaired.  Since the bracket is riveted to the plastic fender, I think not.  If it were screwed in, it would be a simple matter to buy a new bracket.  But maybe someone has repaired their fender successfully, and will let me know how it's done.

I would like it if BF would use painted steel brackets for their fenders instead of aluminum, or screw the brackets to the fenders.  It's annoying to have to pay $60 for a new set of fenders just because one weak part of one fender fails.

Tom Revay
NWT #12440 Flag Red 
... because everyone should own a red bike, sometime in their lives!
From BradMiter at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 19 09:46:03 2006
From: BradMiter at earthlink.net (Bradford Miter)
Date: Wed Jul 19 09:46:19 2006
Subject: [Yak] Can fender brackets be fixed or replaced?
In-Reply-To: <200607191041050724.03C0885C@localhost>
Message-ID: <001001c6ab42$0f7624f0$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>

You can replace the rivets with stainless bolts, nuts, and washers.  Strap
aluminum is usually available at Home Depot or Lowe's.
Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: yak-bounces@bikefriday.com [mailto:yak-bounces@bikefriday.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Revay
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:41 AM
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Subject: [Yak] Can fender brackets be fixed or replaced?


Yaksters --

The fender brackets on my New World Tourist have undergone some unfortunate
flexing through folding and stashing in trunks of cars, etc.  The brackets
are strips of aluminum, and unlike steel, aluminum is a brittle metal that
sustains permanent damage when it is bent while cold.

My rear fender bracket now has a crack running through it, and it no longer
supports the fender above the wheel.  I've removed it from the bike so as to
avoid having it fall off on the road, and I am buying a new set of fenders.

But I'd like to know if this part can be repaired.  Since the bracket is
riveted to the plastic fender, I think not.  If it were screwed in, it would
be a simple matter to buy a new bracket.  But maybe someone has repaired
their fender successfully, and will let me know how it's done.

I would like it if BF would use painted steel brackets for their fenders
instead of aluminum, or screw the brackets to the fenders.  It's annoying to
have to pay $60 for a new set of fenders just because one weak part of one
fender fails.

Tom Revay
NWT #12440 Flag Red 
... because everyone should own a red bike, sometime in their lives!
_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak

From alex at phred.org  Wed Jul 19 10:20:00 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Wed Jul 19 10:20:44 2006
Subject: [Yak] Can fender brackets be fixed or replaced?
In-Reply-To: <001001c6ab42$0f7624f0$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>
References: <001001c6ab42$0f7624f0$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>
Message-ID: <20060719081810.C27020@phred.org>

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Bradford Miter wrote:
> You can replace the rivets with stainless bolts, nuts, and washers.  Strap
> aluminum is usually available at Home Depot or Lowe's.

I'm recommend using strap stainless steel instead.  Ask your LBS if
they have any discarded stainless steel straps from mountain bike rear
racks.  Some brands come with two sets of straps in different lengths
and sometimes the shops will sell the extra set (left over from
mounting a rack on a bike) cheaply or give them away if you are a good
customer.

The Bike Friday fenders optimize too much for quick removal instead
of coverage.  I prefer to use SKS or Planet Bike fenders.

alex
From trevay at massbike.org  Wed Jul 19 10:31:19 2006
From: trevay at massbike.org (Tom Revay)
Date: Wed Jul 19 10:32:11 2006
Subject: [Yak] Can fender brackets be fixed or replaced?
References: <001001c6ab42$0f7624f0$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>
	<20060719081810.C27020@phred.org>
	<200607191128500698.03EC4BBB@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <200607191131190035.03EE8FBF@localhost>

On 7/19/2006 at 8:20 AM alex wetmore wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Bradford Miter wrote:
>> You can replace the rivets with stainless bolts, nuts, and washers. 
>Strap
>> aluminum is usually available at Home Depot or Lowe's.
>
>I'm recommend using strap stainless steel instead.  Ask your LBS if
>they have any discarded stainless steel straps from mountain bike rear
>racks.  

All this sounds like good advice, but how do you remove the rivets from the fenders without damaging the plastic?

>The Bike Friday fenders optimize too much for quick removal instead
>of coverage.  I prefer to use SKS or Planet Bike fenders.

Do SKS or PB make fenders for 406 wheels?  Or do you cut yours down?  If you have to cut the fenders, you likely also cut the rods that attach them.  And do these pack well into the Samsonite suitcase?

Tom Revay
NWT #12440 Flag Red 
From alex at phred.org  Wed Jul 19 10:34:33 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Wed Jul 19 10:34:42 2006
Subject: [Yak] Can fender brackets be fixed or replaced?
In-Reply-To: <200607191128500698.03EC4BBB@127.0.0.1>
References: <001001c6ab42$0f7624f0$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>
	<20060719081810.C27020@phred.org>
	<200607191128500698.03EC4BBB@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20060719083041.K27020@phred.org>

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Tom Revay wrote:
> On 7/19/2006 at 8:20 AM alex wetmore wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Bradford Miter wrote:
>>> You can replace the rivets with stainless bolts, nuts, and washers.
>> Strap
>>> aluminum is usually available at Home Depot or Lowe's.
>>
>> I'm recommend using strap stainless steel instead.  Ask your LBS if
>> they have any discarded stainless steel straps from mountain bike rear
>> racks.
>
> All this sounds like good advice, but how do you remove the rivets from the fenders without damaging the plastic?

Drill through the center of the rivet.  There is a divet where the
rivet tool presses into them, and it is pretty easy to run a drill bit
down there (especially since the rivet is normally aluminum).

>> The Bike Friday fenders optimize too much for quick removal instead
>> of coverage.  I prefer to use SKS or Planet Bike fenders.
>
> Do SKS or PB make fenders for 406 wheels?  Or do you cut yours down? 
> If you have to cut the fenders, you likely also cut the rods that
> attach them.  And do these pack well into the Samsonite suitcase?

Both companies make 406mm fenders.  The SKS ones aren't widely
distributed, but Planet Bike ones are.

http://www.planetbike.com/fenders.html

Look at the recumbent fenders, second item on the page.

When packing I leave the rear fender mounted but remove the bolts that
secure it to the dropouts.  This allows the fender to press up flat
against the rear wheel.  I remove the front fender and nest it around
the front wheel when I lay that in the suitcase.

alex
From BradMiter at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 19 13:45:12 2006
From: BradMiter at earthlink.net (Bradford Miter)
Date: Wed Jul 19 13:46:23 2006
Subject: [Yak] Can fender brackets be fixed or replaced?
In-Reply-To: <20060719081810.C27020@phred.org>
Message-ID: <000701c6ab63$780ce1e0$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>

ALEX, I agree that other fenders are better overall but the BF one's do
mount quickly and pack easily.  Coverage is poor in the rear, especially.
If you are pulling the suitcase trailer in mucky countryside -- i.e..
England or Europe -- be sure and carry a small brush with which to scrub it
off  in the evening.  Also, the rear fender does help a drafting companion
bike at all in wet weather.    

TOM,  I would try filing off the heads of the rivets and then drilling them
out.  I forgot, though, that the brackets appear to be cast and machined
aluminum.  You could still fabricate a two-piece bracket, I suppose, which
would require a longer bolt to mount it to the frame.

Probably better overall just to buy a replacement.

Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: alex wetmore [mailto:alex@phred.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 11:20 AM
To: Bradford Miter
Cc: 'Tom Revay'; yak@bikefriday.com
Subject: RE: [Yak] Can fender brackets be fixed or replaced?


On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Bradford Miter wrote:
> You can replace the rivets with stainless bolts, nuts, and washers.  Strap
> aluminum is usually available at Home Depot or Lowe's.

I'm recommend using strap stainless steel instead.  Ask your LBS if
they have any discarded stainless steel straps from mountain bike rear
racks.  Some brands come with two sets of straps in different lengths
and sometimes the shops will sell the extra set (left over from
mounting a rack on a bike) cheaply or give them away if you are a good
customer.

The Bike Friday fenders optimize too much for quick removal instead
of coverage.  I prefer to use SKS or Planet Bike fenders.

alex

From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 19 14:18:35 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Wed Jul 19 14:18:45 2006
Subject: [Yak] Repairing bike fenders
Message-ID: <20060719191835.39823.qmail@web34711.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I would second the recommendation to drill out the
rivets. They are just pop rivets and are easily
drilled out. Do not use too big a drill bit, however
as that will enlarge the whole. Use a drill bit that
is just a hair smaller than the rivet itself. It is
easy to remove any residue of the rivet that may be
left after it is drilled out. Make sure you secure the
fender as it will have a tendency to turn when you
start cutting through the rivet to the other side and
a 3/8 drill has surprising torque if you are not
prepared for it.
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CA
From kneppjs at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 19 16:42:16 2006
From: kneppjs at yahoo.com (Jim Knepper)
Date: Wed Jul 19 16:43:24 2006
Subject: [Yak] Cyclist vs Automobiles
In-Reply-To: <20060719170017.C8509194386@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <20060719214216.61529.qmail@web37215.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Last fall, I posted a message on this site regarding a Northwest Ohio
cyclist (he was a medical doctor) who was struck by an automobile and
killed while he was out riding. For anyone interested, the driver was
sentenced last week to 12 years in jail.

Which somehow doesn't seem like an even trade to me.

(The drive had drunk a bottle of vodka prior to the accident.)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From Rainier.Farmer at oregonstate.edu  Wed Jul 19 18:13:09 2006
From: Rainier.Farmer at oregonstate.edu (Farmer, Rainier)
Date: Wed Jul 19 18:13:32 2006
Subject: [Yak] Fenders Part 2
Message-ID: <B15A119D5DF6AF4BB642568A861ABC6A05B60A29@NWS-EXCH3.nws.oregonstate.edu>

A different word of warning regarding fenders and car racks. I cracked a
front fender by leaving it on when transporting our Family Tandem on a
roof rack. The wind force was enough to crack the fender (the wheel was
off as the Yakima tandem rack uses a fork mount). I was able to repair
with Superglue, which has held up for one season. I now remove the
fenders before transporting the bike on the rack. The fenders are Bike
Friday's, so they only have a single mounting point. 

Rainier

Rainier Farmer
rainier.farmer at oregonstate.edu 


From waranoid at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 19 19:33:05 2006
From: waranoid at yahoo.com (Marc Plum)
Date: Wed Jul 19 19:33:12 2006
Subject: [Yak] More on fenders.
Message-ID: <20060720003305.57584.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com>

I have mixed feelings on the Bike Friday fenders.  On the one hand, they
work, they're light, easy to install and remove, and in general, they're
well enough designed, and suited for the specific purpose of mounting on
Bike Fridays.

On the other hand, they seem quite overpriced considering the materials
and workmanship.  I thought that when I bought them for $40 back in 1995
for my NWT, and they're $60 now.  Maybe I shouldn't complain.  By shaving
a bit of plastic off the front of the rear fender, I got it to fit on my
Crusoe and Pocket Tourist, too, so I've gotten quite a lot of use out of
them.  On the other hand, a set of 20 inch Planet Bike fenders, which I
bought for another bike, were under $35.00, and the workmanship is clearly
superior.  The brackets on my BF fenders haven't broken, and they do the
job, but they are very crudely fabricated.  Just saying.

Marc
From trevay at massbike.org  Thu Jul 20 12:45:10 2006
From: trevay at massbike.org (Tom Revay)
Date: Thu Jul 20 12:45:36 2006
Subject: [Yak] Can fender brackets be fixed or replaced?
In-Reply-To: <001001c6ab42$0f7624f0$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>
References: <001001c6ab42$0f7624f0$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>
Message-ID: <200607201345100841.00E98C16@localhost>

THANK YOU to everyone who helped on this question!  I just ordered a set of Planet Bike fenders, which I've used before on other bikes.  They've been very durable, and though a little more troublesome to install than the BF standard ones, they're less expensive and look like they'll give more coverage.

I also bought a floor pump.  I left my pump behind when I was on vacation in Maine a few weeks ago (grrrr!).  So I needed one anyway.

Planet Bike offers free shipping if you're a member of a bicyclist advocacy organization ... like the League, or the Massachusetts Bicycle Coalition (are you listening, John Allen?).  Sweet!

I will also try to repair my BF fender.  If I can, they'll continue to be handy when I'm traveling.

Tom Revay
NWT #12440 Flag Red 


On 7/19/2006 at 8:34 AM alex wetmore wrote:

>>> The Bike Friday fenders optimize too much for quick removal instead
>>> of coverage.  I prefer to use SKS or Planet Bike fenders.

>>
>> Do SKS or PB make fenders for 406 wheels?  Or do you cut yours down?
>> If you have to cut the fenders, you likely also cut the rods that
>> attach them.  And do these pack well into the Samsonite suitcase?

>Both companies make 406mm fenders.  The SKS ones aren't widely
>distributed, but Planet Bike ones are.
>
>http://www.planetbike.com/fenders.html
>
>Look at the recumbent fenders, second item on the page."
From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 20 13:10:31 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Thu Jul 20 13:11:47 2006
Subject: [Yak] Killing bicyclists and flapping fenders
Message-ID: <20060720181031.34176.qmail@web34709.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

How's that for a mixed bag of titles? Twelve years for
killing a bicyclist is not a bad sentence. We had a
driver in Ventura who fled the scene after killing one
bicyclist and seriously injuring a second. He had
priors for DWI and the reason he fled the scene was
probably because he was DWI at the time of the
collision, but, of course, you can't make a conviction
on probabilities. He was going to get straight
probation until the bicycle community raised hell with
the DA and the judge -- they are still elected
officials in Kaliforniya -- and he finally wound up
getting the heavy sentence of 3 years in prison with
probation after prison. So twelve years? Not too bad.

The first time I mounted my bike to my rear rack I
noticed that the fenders were flapping mightily in the
wind. After that I tied them to the tire with old
inner tubes which make very handy bungee straps. I
always keep my old tubes. I use them in the garage for
a variety of strapping purposes.
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CAb
From johntrev at comcast.net  Thu Jul 20 17:28:41 2006
From: johntrev at comcast.net (John Trevithick)
Date: Thu Jul 20 17:28:01 2006
Subject: [Yak] Headset o-ring?
Message-ID: <005c01c6ac4b$dadd2ad0$a388a943@OFFICE>

Hi,

 

I just noticed that on my Metro there is an o-ring around the upper part of the headset,
where the handlebar stem is inserted.  However, there is no o-ring in the same place on my
Twosday tandem.should I have one?  I guess the o-ring is only there to cushion the bottom
of the handlebar stem.

 

Thanks,

 

John

 

From pbllc at qwest.net  Fri Jul 21 16:22:48 2006
From: pbllc at qwest.net (Parkside Building)
Date: Fri Jul 21 16:23:56 2006
Subject: [Yak] Pressurized bicycle chambers for commuting?
In-Reply-To: <20060721170011.21E921943C0@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <20060721212255.C79191A99CE@mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net>

It seems to me that a sealed pressurized enclosure would allow bicyclers to
go at least five miles mph faster.  The more bicycles in the chamber the
less electricity it would take to pressurize it.  Bicyclist who went faster
would unload the pressurized system even further.  Solar panels on the roof
of the pressurized chamber could power the pressurization fan.  Given enough
solar panels they could even add a little heating or cooling. This would be
idea in cooler climates.  One would step into the chamber in the middle of
the winter with a windbreaker on and commute to work at 20-25 miles per
hour. Is this possible?

Gary T.




 
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: yak-bounces@bikefriday.com [mailto:yak-bounces@bikefriday.com] On
Behalf Of yak-request@bikefriday.com
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 12:00 PM
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Subject: Yak Digest, Vol 25, Issue 23

Send Yak mailing list submissions to
	yak@bikefriday.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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	yak-owner@bikefriday.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Yak digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. RE:  Can fender brackets be fixed or replaced? (Tom Revay)
   2.  Killing bicyclists and flapping fenders (charles voigtsberger)
   3.  Headset o-ring? (John Trevithick)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:45:10 -0400
From: "Tom Revay" <trevay@massbike.org>
Subject: RE: [Yak] Can fender brackets be fixed or replaced?
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Message-ID: <200607201345100841.00E98C16@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

THANK YOU to everyone who helped on this question!  I just ordered a set of
Planet Bike fenders, which I've used before on other bikes.  They've been
very durable, and though a little more troublesome to install than the BF
standard ones, they're less expensive and look like they'll give more
coverage.

I also bought a floor pump.  I left my pump behind when I was on vacation in
Maine a few weeks ago (grrrr!).  So I needed one anyway.

Planet Bike offers free shipping if you're a member of a bicyclist advocacy
organization ... like the League, or the Massachusetts Bicycle Coalition
(are you listening, John Allen?).  Sweet!

I will also try to repair my BF fender.  If I can, they'll continue to be
handy when I'm traveling.

Tom Revay
NWT #12440 Flag Red 


On 7/19/2006 at 8:34 AM alex wetmore wrote:

>>> The Bike Friday fenders optimize too much for quick removal instead 
>>> of coverage.  I prefer to use SKS or Planet Bike fenders.

>>
>> Do SKS or PB make fenders for 406 wheels?  Or do you cut yours down?
>> If you have to cut the fenders, you likely also cut the rods that 
>> attach them.  And do these pack well into the Samsonite suitcase?

>Both companies make 406mm fenders.  The SKS ones aren't widely 
>distributed, but Planet Bike ones are.
>
>http://www.planetbike.com/fenders.html
>
>Look at the recumbent fenders, second item on the page."


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:10:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: charles voigtsberger <charles_e_voigtsberger@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Yak] Killing bicyclists and flapping fenders
To: Yak@bikefriday.com
Message-ID: <20060720181031.34176.qmail@web34709.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

How's that for a mixed bag of titles? Twelve years for killing a bicyclist
is not a bad sentence. We had a driver in Ventura who fled the scene after
killing one bicyclist and seriously injuring a second. He had priors for DWI
and the reason he fled the scene was probably because he was DWI at the time
of the collision, but, of course, you can't make a conviction on
probabilities. He was going to get straight probation until the bicycle
community raised hell with the DA and the judge -- they are still elected
officials in Kaliforniya -- and he finally wound up getting the heavy
sentence of 3 years in prison with probation after prison. So twelve years?
Not too bad.

The first time I mounted my bike to my rear rack I noticed that the fenders
were flapping mightily in the wind. After that I tied them to the tire with
old inner tubes which make very handy bungee straps. I always keep my old
tubes. I use them in the garage for a variety of strapping purposes.
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CAb


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:28:41 -0700
From: "John Trevithick" <johntrev@comcast.net>
Subject: [Yak] Headset o-ring?
To: <yak@bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <005c01c6ac4b$dadd2ad0$a388a943@OFFICE>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Hi,

 

I just noticed that on my Metro there is an o-ring around the upper part of
the headset, where the handlebar stem is inserted.  However, there is no
o-ring in the same place on my Twosday tandem.should I have one?  I guess
the o-ring is only there to cushion the bottom of the handlebar stem.

 

Thanks,

 

John

 



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak


End of Yak Digest, Vol 25, Issue 23
***********************************



From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Fri Jul 21 17:36:15 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John S. Allen)
Date: Fri Jul 21 20:59:11 2006
Subject: [Yak] Pressurized bicycle chambers for commuting?
In-Reply-To: <20060721212255.C79191A99CE@mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net>
References: <20060721170011.21E921943C0@server1.bikefriday.com>
	<20060721212255.C79191A99CE@mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060721182918.0507a9a0@pop.spamcop.net>

At 17:22 7/21/2006, Parkside Building wrote:

>It seems to me that a sealed pressurized enclosure would allow bicyclers to
>go at least five miles mph faster.  The more bicycles in the chamber the
>less electricity it would take to pressurize it.  Bicyclist who went faster
>would unload the pressurized system even further.  Solar panels on the roof
>of the pressurized chamber could power the pressurization fan.  Given enough
>solar panels they could even add a little heating or cooling. This would be
>idea in cooler climates.  One would step into the chamber in the middle of
>the winter with a windbreaker on and commute to work at 20-25 miles per
>hour. Is this possible?
>
>Gary T.

Please see my take on this concept at 
http://www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/facil/biketrans.htm

A natural tailwind is a very nice thing when riding a bicycle, and 
the shelter of a tunnel could be nice in cold or wet weather, but 
unfortunately, pushing air through a tunnel is a very inefficient and 
expensive way to propel bicyclists, and carries other practical 
problems as well -- isolation, with the increased risk of physical 
attack and inability to stop at desired destinations; solar heating 
in the tunnel in summer; inability to adjust power for upgrades and 
downgrades, etc.

Stationary wind turbines, on the other hand, are now economically 
competitive with fossil fuels for large power plants, and their power 
output can charge a battery for an electric bicycle, for people who 
might find one attractive. (I don't, and won't as long as my legs 
hold out -- any motor on a bicycle makes it much less pleasant to 
ride *without* using the motor. In the future, wind power might also 
be used to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen, so 
internal-combustion engines will have a pollution-free fuel.

John S. Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com (replace " *at* " with "@")

http://www.bikexprt.com/  
From jcleo01 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 21 21:11:51 2006
From: jcleo01 at hotmail.com (Jackie)
Date: Fri Jul 21 21:12:23 2006
Subject: [Yak] Bike Rack/Flapping fenders
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV807DA920E6A39A52C163DA1670@phx.gbl>

I chuckled to think of fenders flapping, but this raises the issue of how
you put a mono-tube Bike Friday on a car rear rack---upside down, or what?

Jackie
From xhefty at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 22 08:08:06 2006
From: xhefty at earthlink.net (Richard B. Clarke)
Date: Sat Jul 22 08:08:31 2006
Subject: [Yak] SatRDay Suspension issues
Message-ID: <0dea01c6ad8f$dfe2d030$6401a8c0@CONSULTIWN63E3>

Any one out there that has had experience with a Cane Creek Air shock on a classic SatRDay? I need help.

I have one on my 16 in wheel SRD and it changes the geometry of the bike which changes the seat angle and everything which I think effects handling. Am I doing something wrong. I really like this shock which was an option on the original and would like it to work.

Your help and advice would be appreciated.

Richard Clarke
SRD (03)
NWT (00)
From roulez-libre at animail.net  Sat Jul 22 12:14:10 2006
From: roulez-libre at animail.net (bikefridaywalter)
Date: Sat Jul 22 12:14:12 2006
Subject: [Yak] Bike Rack/Flapping fenders
Message-ID: <F5C71FD0B8FDB94449FF97FF1CB2CB9F@roulez-libre.animail.net>

http://bikefridaywalter.wordpress.com/2006/07/22/racking-up-points/


---
EAT, RIDE AND BE MERRY!
contact me: http://tinyurl.com/5xqj8
BF World Map: http://frappr.com/bikefriday 


Stand up for puppies! Send a special "thank you"
to PA's governor for helping to stop puppy mills:
http://go.care2.com/puppymills

http://www.Care2.com  Free e-mail. 100MB storage.  Helps nonprofits. 
From john63401 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 22 12:19:47 2006
From: john63401 at gmail.com (J M)
Date: Sat Jul 22 12:19:52 2006
Subject: [Yak] Equip list for NWT tour?
Message-ID: <25ddd8de0607221019n4ecd9470v698bb5f42c3e3740@mail.gmail.com>

Can someone provide me with some advice on what equip to take on long
distance self contained tour on NWT?

First.... is it possible or even desirable to use a trailer?  Or are
panniers better for the NWT

Also... what advice on specific brands and models on the following:

Cooking gear

Tent

Sleep gear

More later
From RAKAK at aol.com  Sat Jul 22 18:53:30 2006
From: RAKAK at aol.com (RAKAK@aol.com)
Date: Sat Jul 22 18:53:51 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: Yak Digest, Vol 25, Issue 22
Message-ID: <394.8462d20.31f4147a@aol.com>

The 12 yrs in Oh is amazing I have never seen a sentance  in Md even close. 
The guidelines are nowhere that storng. Guidlines are some formula used here to 
help determine sentancing. In my 35 years of policing i have never seen 
twelve years for killing someone using a auto a person on a bike or a ped or a 
driver in a car.
WQas that straight 12 yrs or was some of it suspended and placed on probation.
with good time that works aout to a little over 8 years around here
From jgrady at surewest.net  Sat Jul 22 21:02:44 2006
From: jgrady at surewest.net (jgrady@surewest.net)
Date: Sat Jul 22 21:03:17 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: Yak Digest, Vol 25, Issue 24
Message-ID: <20060722190244.AFG38130@mp4.mc.surewest.net>

I notice Tom vacationed in Maine recently.  I am about to retire.  I have a couple of trips planned near home, but was thinking of heading East and riding from Maine to New Jersey.
Anybody done that trip?  Any tips?  Know nothing about the area, airports, etc.  Just want to take a ride and take in the fall colors.

                         jg
From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 22 21:52:05 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Sat Jul 22 21:52:33 2006
Subject: [Yak] Friday on a rear rack and naturally powered bicycles
Message-ID: <20060723025205.11903.qmail@web34707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

When I was using my rear rack for hauling my bike, my
tandem XL traveled upside down. When I traveled with
our Jack Taylor in the "normal" position, I used to
take off the front wheel so that we didn't project too
far on the sides. With the XL in the reversed
position, the wheels are up by the top of the vehicle
and out of the way of catching on anything IMO.
When I was young, Boys' Life magazine used to carry
ads for a sail to add to your bicycle so that you
could ride with the speed of the wind. I never did
order one, but the idea always intrigued me. I don't
know what you did if the wind was coming from the
front.
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CA
From m at ttjarvis.com  Sat Jul 22 23:22:17 2006
From: m at ttjarvis.com (Matthew Jarvis)
Date: Sat Jul 22 23:22:32 2006
Subject: [Yak] Equip list for NWT tour?
In-Reply-To: <25ddd8de0607221019n4ecd9470v698bb5f42c3e3740@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <IFEBJGJPFLGPNMILPEGBAEANJEAA.m@ttjarvis.com>

> Behalf Of J M
> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 10:20 AM
> Subject: [Yak] Equip list for NWT tour?
>
> Can someone provide me with some advice on what equip to take on long
> distance self contained tour on NWT?
>

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you don't have much outdoor or
backpacking experience. In a lot of ways you should think like a backpacker
going on an extended hike when it comes to the sort of gear you'd want.
Think small, light, and GOOD QUALITY.

Try a google search on something like "backpacking gear list", or the REI
How To pages (www.rei.com), www.bicycletouring101.com, etc. The gear you
want is virtually identical.

> First.... is it possible or even desirable to use a trailer?  Or are
> panniers better for the NWT

Yes, you can use a trailer with your NWT. We have trailers as part of the
overall Travel System (i.e. packable suitcase) or other types of haulers.
Also the skewers are the same on the BF as other bikes so you could use
other types (BOB, Burley) trailers.

Panniers vs Trailers are one of those near-religious types of arguments -
everybody is different. I've only used a trailer but I'd really like to try
panniers some time. Not that there's anything wrong with pulling a trailer
but I just want to see how the other half lives, ya know?

>
> Also... what advice on specific brands and models on the following:
>Cooking gear, Tent, Sleep gear,

A lot of what you want depends on what type of touring you want to do and
what you might run in to out there... my opinion is that when in doubt -
upgrade. I've never in my life heard anyone say "gee, I wish I hadn't spent
so much on that piece of gear"... I've heard many times "damn, why didn't I
get the good stuff"... you comfort (and in a bad situation, your life)
depends on your gear, so buy wisely.

Cooking gear... what are you planning to eat? If you plan on just
rehydrating stuff all the time (noodles, rice, soups) you can probably get
by with a 1 qt pot (with lid!) which you might be able to find at a thrift
store for next to nothing. Don't worry about what it looks like, as long as
it isn't leaking or gummed up in some way... I happen to have a thing called
an MSR Alpine Tea Pot that is designed to do nothing but boil water, and it
does that very well... Aluminum stuff is fine - don't waste your $$$ on
titanium unless you stumble across a helluva deal... if you shop around
online you can find aluminum cooksets for something like $20 - and most of
that is overkill anyway...

Tents... weight and size are the obvious criteria... if just you try and
stay under 6 lbs... Eureka makes some decent tents that don't cost a lot...
try and get a bit of extra room for gear in bad weather.... I happen to have
an older Walrus tent that is luxurious for just me, but pretty cozy for two.

Sleeping bags.... yikes - too many choices... I prefer synthetic vs down,
but that's just me... If you *know* you can keep it dry, go for a down bag -
more $$$ but lighter (by a bit)....

You gear doesn't have to be pretty... chances are you aren't going to see
whoever you bump into at camp ever again anyway (other than cyclists, who
are in the same boat anyways)...

spend wisely, buy quality (used is fine as long as it works)...

Try a dry run some time for a place near home... an easy ride where you can
overnight and just check what works and what doesn't....

Matt Jarvis
IT Manager
Bike Friday

NWT Frame # 2270





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From daduncan at verizon.net  Sun Jul 23 13:25:46 2006
From: daduncan at verizon.net (David Duncan)
Date: Sun Jul 23 13:26:42 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: Touring
In-Reply-To: <20060723170005.C78AC194167@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060723170005.C78AC194167@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <44C3BF2A.3000507@verizon.net>

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/touring/
There's a lot of touring information/advice on this wonderful site.
From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 23 14:03:42 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Sun Jul 23 14:03:49 2006
Subject: [Yak] Cycle camping
Message-ID: <20060723190342.44521.qmail@web34714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If you have never camped before or have very little
experience, the folks at Adventure Cycling offer a
course in bicycle camping that you might want to
consider. They are a bit didactic, but if you get past
that, they do have good info as they have been running
camping tours for a long time. 
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CA
From jwb_bos at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 23 14:06:14 2006
From: jwb_bos at yahoo.com (Jaap Bos)
Date: Sun Jul 23 14:06:19 2006
Subject: [Yak] dry feet... any suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <44C3BF2A.3000507@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20060723190614.99023.qmail@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear all,
 
I just returned from 3 weeks of cycling on my pocket llama in northern Norway. Including 2 weeks with freezing cold and almost non-stop rain. Hence... anyone who has some great suggestions on how to keep your feet warm and dry under those conditions?
 
What I've considered (but not necessarily tried) sofar:
 
- waterproof shoes (cycling shoes or hiking boots). But: too bulky....
 
- gaitors: great, but not sufficient.
 
- waterproof socks. Gore? Sealskinz? Any experiences?
 
- shoe covers. On a boat trip above the arctic circle, I did a small question round among appr. 10 cyclists, all wearing shoe covers. Nobody was satisfied with how they worked. Neither was I.
 
best, Jaap Bos
From BradMiter at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 23 16:20:35 2006
From: BradMiter at earthlink.net (Bradford Miter)
Date: Sun Jul 23 16:20:41 2006
Subject: [Yak] dry feet... any suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <20060723190614.99023.qmail@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001601c6ae9d$d6d09450$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>

We had pretty good experience with the Burley Shoe Covers covering 1600
miles in the UK.
They are not perfect but at least our feet were warm.
Brad Miter

-----Original Message-----
From: yak-bounces@bikefriday.com [mailto:yak-bounces@bikefriday.com] On
Behalf Of Jaap Bos
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 3:06 PM
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Subject: [Yak] dry feet... any suggestions?


Dear all,
 
I just returned from 3 weeks of cycling on my pocket llama in northern
Norway. Including 2 weeks with freezing cold and almost non-stop rain.
Hence... anyone who has some great suggestions on how to keep your feet warm
and dry under those conditions?
 
What I've considered (but not necessarily tried) sofar:
 
- waterproof shoes (cycling shoes or hiking boots). But: too bulky....
 
- gaitors: great, but not sufficient.
 
- waterproof socks. Gore? Sealskinz? Any experiences?
 
- shoe covers. On a boat trip above the arctic circle, I did a small
question round among appr. 10 cyclists, all wearing shoe covers. Nobody was
satisfied with how they worked. Neither was I.
 
best, Jaap Bos
_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak

From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 24 02:47:34 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Mon Jul 24 02:48:28 2006
Subject: [Yak] Loaded touring tips
In-Reply-To: <20060723170006.BE92519429B@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060723170006.BE92519429B@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <D0126C9C-09DF-4E5C-A7A2-52DA9987F629@yahoo.com>

Check the links section of the BF website for some cool customer  
websites, where good tips are often written up under 'What Do You Do  
on a Friday - Great Customer  Sites' and 'Adventure Travels'
http://www.bikefriday.com/links
The last one I saw this info on was Rob English's site - search for  
him in the Gallery http://www.bikefriday.com/gallery
From grasshopperadventures at gmail.com  Mon Jul 24 04:30:48 2006
From: grasshopperadventures at gmail.com (Jason Williams)
Date: Mon Jul 24 04:31:23 2006
Subject: [Yak] Free Bangkok Tour
Message-ID: <49c0dfe0607240230j26c74aa4ib1a216bb06a9d1c6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Yaksters

Just wanted you all to be the first to know that in celebration of World Car
Free Day on 22 September we will be offering our Bangkok Unlocked half day
bike tour free to the first 10 people to register or anyone that comes with
theor own bike.  While you won't be riding Bike Fridays unless you bring
your own (I will be on my NWT) it is a great fun ride away from the traffic
(can't imagine too many Bangkokkers leaving their cars at home).  If you are
in Bangkok or know anyone here at that time please join us.  Register on our
website: www.grasshopperadventures.com/tb01.html

Cheers
Jason

-- 
Grasshopper Adventures
Cycling journeys through Asia
www.grasshopperadventures.com

17th Floor                  48 Soi 3 Samsen Rd
One Hysen Avenue     Phranakorn
Causeway Bay           Bangkok 10200
Hong Kong                 Thailand

phone
  Thailand: (+66) 07 929 5208
skype - give us a call!
  username: grasshopperadventures
From goltermann at comcast.net  Mon Jul 24 12:16:36 2006
From: goltermann at comcast.net (Wilbur Goltermann Jr.)
Date: Mon Jul 24 12:20:29 2006
Subject: [Yak] Equip list for NWT tour?
Message-ID: <B6C7DD85-4CD4-4679-889A-A6EB79F1B005@comcast.net>

Dear J M,

I'll give you my perspective on gear to carry, and as one respondent  
noted, it comes from the same experience as a backpacker.  In  
general, the lighter the better.

First Rack/paniers versus trailer:  If you carry the trailer it will  
offer you a good deal more flexibility when choosing other modes of  
transportation for segments of the trip which you might decide not to  
ride.  With the trailer, you can easily pack the bike to go on a bus  
or on Amtrak or by air travel.  Then, too, Bike Friday has designed  
these bikes and trailers to track as a unit.  I use a rack and  
paniers when performing errands at home, but would use only a trailer  
for self-supported touring.

Second cooking gear:  You want a stove which is light-weight, which  
boils water fastest, which can be adjusted to a VERY low flame (for  
just keeping things warm, or for cooking eggs).  A stove which  
supports multiple fuels is also something to look for, as is a stove  
which burns quietly - some stoves I have used sound like a 747 taking  
off in your campsite when running at full steam.  The best stove I  
have ever used is the Coleman Multi-fuel stove.  It burns either  
white gas or kerosene (you must change the so-called generator when  
changing fuels).   I think that the newest models of this is called  
the Peak I multi-fuel and the Peak 1 Apex. It boils water very fast  
compared to most, is whisper quiet, and at low heat you can cook  
sunnyside eggs without burning them.  REI is selling a new stove that  
I haven't tried, but which has my curiosity up - it is called the  
"Jet Boil" system, or some-such, and might be worth a look.  I  
recommend teflon-lined titanium cookware - perhaps containing a small  
fry pan, and small and medium sized covered pans;  REI (or EMS) also  
sell light and stackable sets.

Tent and sleep gear choices depend on the climate in which you find  
yourself.  If riding in the late spring, or summer, or early fall, a  
35 degree bag should do nicely

Tent:  Lots of choices here, but, again, lightweight is a primary  
concern.  Also of concern is that it should be a "freestanding" tent  
- ie: pitchable without having to be staked out.  I own a Timberline  
2-man tent called the "Timberlite".  If I were buying a new tent  
today, I would consider one of the lightweight tents sold by  
outfitters such as REI or EMS.  Many new tents come with a waterproof  
footprint; some of these allow the frameset to be attached directly  
to the footprint and then covered with only the rain fly - a good  
open-air solution in a bug-free area.  Small two man tents are  
available in the near 4 pound area.  If you're riding solo, a bivouac  
tent (essentially a one-man tent) might provide a sub-two-pound  
solution.

Sleeping gear:  I use a North-Face Blue Kazoo sleeping bag which is  
rated at 25 degrees F, and put it on the smallest 3/4 length  
Thermalrest sleeping pad. I find the bag to be almost too warm at  
hotter times and just adequate at colder climes; I once woke in Bryce  
Canyon Park to a foot of snow on my tent, and I was mostly  
comfortable inside the bag.  My old Thermalrest pad is 3/4" thick,  
20" wide and 46" to 48" long, and just a couple of puffs of air make  
it very comfortable on all but the most uneven surfaces.  The  
controversy of down sleeping bags versus synthetic bags will continue  
to rage, but suffice it to say down gives you more warmth per unit  
weight and packs smaller.  Down bags also tend to be comfortable over  
a wider range of temperatures.  That being said, if you get down wet,  
it is useless as an insulator.  I own down and simply avoid getting  
it wet.

I hope this helps you make some decisions.

Sincerely,




Wilbur Goltermann
From tina_mancuso at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 24 13:07:47 2006
From: tina_mancuso at yahoo.com (Tina Mancuso)
Date: Mon Jul 24 13:08:11 2006
Subject: [Yak] My SatRDay review
Message-ID: <20060724180747.41628.qmail@web52314.mail.yahoo.com>

In case you're not all breathlessly checking the customer review pages every
day, I figured I'd mention that my SatRDay Tour review has finally been posted:

http://www.bikefriday.com/CReviewRead.cfm?MyBikeID=78

--Tina


tina_mancuso@yahoo.com, tina@monster-island.org
http://www.monster-island.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From sgoldenb at calpoly.edu  Mon Jul 24 13:54:34 2006
From: sgoldenb at calpoly.edu (Stu Goldenberg)
Date: Mon Jul 24 13:54:53 2006
Subject: [Yak] Keeping wet feet warm
In-Reply-To: <20060724170016.DEC161942D9@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060724170016.DEC161942D9@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <44C5176A.2040207@calpoly.edu>

While in The Netherlands this past spring, we found that wool socks kept 
our feet warm.  We also had neoprene booties.  Our feet were wet but 
still warm.  Unless it was very cold, the booties were not needed. 
Specifically, we wore Woolie Boolie socks by DeFeet.  (This is not an 
advertisement.)  The down side of wool socks is drying them once wet.  I 
would be afraid to use a dryer because they may shrink, and they took a 
couple of days to air dry in cold The Netherlands.  They were very 
comfortable.
-- 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Stu Goldenberg
From trevay at massbike.org  Mon Jul 24 13:56:09 2006
From: trevay at massbike.org (Tom Revay)
Date: Mon Jul 24 13:56:20 2006
Subject: [Yak] dry feet... any suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <20060723190614.99023.qmail@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060723190614.99023.qmail@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200607241456090235.0EE757D8@localhost>

On 7/23/2006 at 12:06 PM Jaap Bos wrote:
>I just returned from 3 weeks of cycling on my pocket llama in northern
>Norway. Including 2 weeks with freezing cold and almost non-stop rain.

All the way to Norway to get what we had every weekend in New England during the months of May and June?  8-P

Boston winters involve periods of daily melt / freeze cycles as snow melts onto the roads during the days, then freezes when the temperature falls at night.  The roads themselves retain enough heat that I usually ride to and from work on wet, but not icy roads, but these constantly throw-up a steady spray of gritty, cold water onto my feet.

On days when the temperatures are above freezing but below 40 degrees Fahrenheit, I wear neoprene shoe covers or "booties."  The ones I wear are cheezy Performance-brand, which I like because they're relatively cheap, and I deserve nothing but the cheapest.  Neoprene is waterproof -- though the seams might still allow water -- and the zips up the back of these covers make them relatively easy to put on.  I wear ordinary SPD-cleated cycling shoes (which means that some water can come up through the hole I cut in the boot), and a light wool or other non-cotton athletic sock, down to about freezing.

When it's colder than freezing, I'll add a second sock inside my shoe.  When it's colder than 20 degrees Fahrenheit, I go to a thin non-cotton sock next to my foot, and a medium-weight wool or fleece sock.  If it's cooler than 15, I wear a thick non-cotton sock with the wool or fleece.  Colder than ten, and I wear a heavy wool knee-sock, kind of like what the firemen wear when they have to work in bitter temperatures.  And below about 5, it's whatever that's warm and fuzzy that I can fit inside my shoe (and I have over-sized cycling shoes for winter).

I suppose the ultimate waterproof-ness would be Sealskins combined with the neoprene booties.  Never needed anything like that, though.  One nice thing about riding in below-freezing weather:  it's pretty dry.  But the worst weather, in my opinion, is raining at about 35 degrees Fahrenheit.  If water gets in at that temperature, you get frigid in a hurry!

Tom Revay
NWT #12440 Flag Red 
From ltierstein at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 24 20:53:51 2006
From: ltierstein at earthlink.net (Leslie Tierstein)
Date: Mon Jul 24 20:54:12 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: dry feet... any suggestions?
Message-ID: <22025200.1153792432115.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Definitely, Burley rain booties are the best. However, you need to cover the tops of the booties, or rain gets in through the tops.  You can either use gaiters on top of the booties; pull your tights down over the outside of the booties; wear rain pants; or, what I like to do in coolish temperatures, when rain pants would be too hot, wear scrunched up dancers' leg warmers over the tops of the booties.

You don't say what kind of pedals you have -- that makes a difference.  Water always gets in from the bottom of the bootie if you have SPD or similar pedals. If you have platform or rat-trap pedals, I've actually had good look with wearing old fashioned low-cut galoshes over my cycling shoes, and gaiters over those. 

I hate waterproof socks -- they make my feet feel clammy. But YMMV. 

Leslie


=============================================
>Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:06:14 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jaap Bos <jwb_bos@yahoo.com>
>Subject: [Yak] dry feet... any suggestions?
>To: yak@bikefriday.com
>Message-ID: <20060723190614.99023.qmail@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Dear all,
> 
>I just returned from 3 weeks of cycling on my pocket llama in northern Norway. Including 2 weeks with freezing cold and almost non-stop rain. Hence... anyone who has some great suggestions on how to keep your feet warm and dry under those conditions?
> 
>What I've considered (but not necessarily tried) sofar:
> 
>- waterproof shoes (cycling shoes or hiking boots). But: too bulky....
> 
>- gaitors: great, but not sufficient.
> 
>- waterproof socks. Gore? Sealskinz? Any experiences?
> 
>- shoe covers. On a boat trip above the arctic circle, I did a small question round among appr. 10 cyclists, all wearing shoe covers. Nobody was satisfied with how they worked. Neither was I.
> 
>best, Jaap Bos
>

From melolson at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 25 10:49:08 2006
From: melolson at hotmail.com (mel olson)
Date: Tue Jul 25 10:49:29 2006
Subject: [Yak] injured but able to ride NWT
Message-ID: <BAY115-F278DDA4DBF1C8AA554BB85DA5A0@phx.gbl>

Broke 3 ribs and injured shoulder, (not biking, but doing yard work, there 
is a lesson in this) can't get on my regular bikes, but today I was able to 
ride the NWT, getting on and off by stepping over the low bar.  So I will be 
getting some miles afterall.  Great.  Never give up



>From the biking,sailing, and skiing old man!!


From john63401 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 25 12:05:48 2006
From: john63401 at gmail.com (J M)
Date: Tue Jul 25 12:05:54 2006
Subject: [Yak] Equip list
Message-ID: <25ddd8de0607251005m5aa91043t336f50e68ba98b5e@mail.gmail.com>

> I'll give you my perspective on gear to carry, and as one respondent
> noted, it comes from the same experience as a backpacker.  In
> general, the lighter the better.

Thanks Wilbur!

Would your recommend hammock tents such as the Hennesy Hammock?  Are
you more inclined to get a tent that can be setup ANYWHERE and not
depend on hanging between trees like the hammock tent is?

Also... do you think a sleeping bag is even necessary given my touring
will be in hot humid areas as the Midwest?
From faunt at panix.com  Tue Jul 25 12:37:23 2006
From: faunt at panix.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604)
Date: Tue Jul 25 12:37:29 2006
Subject: [Yak] Equip list for NWT tour?
In-Reply-To: <B6C7DD85-4CD4-4679-889A-A6EB79F1B005@comcast.net>
	(goltermann@comcast.net)
References: <B6C7DD85-4CD4-4679-889A-A6EB79F1B005@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <200607251737.k6PHbNu00777@panix1.panix.com>

   Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:16:36 -0600
   From: "Wilbur Goltermann Jr." <goltermann@comcast.net>

   Dear J M,

   I'll give you my perspective on gear to carry, and as one respondent  
   noted, it comes from the same experience as a backpacker.  In  
   general, the lighter the better.

   Second cooking gear:  You want a stove which is light-weight, which  
   boils water fastest, which can be adjusted to a VERY low flame (for  
   just keeping things warm, or for cooking eggs).  A stove which  
   supports multiple fuels is also something to look for, as is a stove  
   which burns quietly - some stoves I have used sound like a 747 taking  
   off in your campsite when running at full steam.  The best stove I  
   have ever used is the Coleman Multi-fuel stove.  It burns either  
   white gas or kerosene (you must change the so-called generator when  
   changing fuels).   I think that the newest models of this is called  
   the Peak I multi-fuel and the Peak 1 Apex. It boils water very fast  
   compared to most, is whisper quiet, and at low heat you can cook  
   sunnyside eggs without burning them.  REI is selling a new stove that  
   I haven't tried, but which has my curiosity up - it is called the  
   "Jet Boil" system, or some-such, and might be worth a look.  I  
   recommend teflon-lined titanium cookware - perhaps containing a small  
   fry pan, and small and medium sized covered pans;  REI (or EMS) also  
   sell light and stackable sets.

Keep in mind that a liquid-fuel camp stove can be a problem if you are
traveling by airplane anywhere in your itinerary. It's difficult to
get the tank empty enough to satisfy the airlines.  The JetBoil uses
gas fuel cartridges, which you can pick up in many places, and then
leave behind.  And you can find other lightweight stoves that use the
same cartridges.

73, doug,

who should get his NWT with case and trailer bit about the middle of
August.



From deanwisleder at insightbb.com  Tue Jul 25 12:52:29 2006
From: deanwisleder at insightbb.com (Dean Wisleder)
Date: Tue Jul 25 12:52:41 2006
Subject: [Yak] Equip list
In-Reply-To: <25ddd8de0607251005m5aa91043t336f50e68ba98b5e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901c6b013$18f192f0$6600a8c0@DEANSLAPTOP>


As a long-time cycle tourist in the Midwest, I've always used a
self-supporting, well ventilated tent with a light-weight down sleeping bag.
If you plan to do organized, supported tours, camping can be on public
school grounds where places to hang a hammock may be hard to find.  A
self-supporting tent offers more options.

In hot weather, I'll sleep on top of my sleeping bag.  If the temperature
drops, it's nice to have the option to lie under the bag or to crawl in.
Again, more options than having no bag at all.

I've used the same tent and bag when the temperature dipped well below
freezing in Utah.  I just wore tights, stocking cap, and long-sleeve jersey
in the bag in the tent, windows closed.

Dean Wisleder
Springfield, IL
'05 AG

JM wrote:

Would your recommend hammock tents...?

Also... do you think a sleeping bag is even necessary given my touring
will be in hot humid areas as the Midwest?

From rneher at csc.com  Tue Jul 25 15:07:01 2006
From: rneher at csc.com (Ronald E Neher)
Date: Tue Jul 25 15:07:21 2006
Subject: [Yak] Ronald E Neher/GIS/CSC is out of the office.
Message-ID: <OFDD831B8B.EDE1EAC9-ON852571B6.006E81BF-852571B6.006E81BF@csc.com>





I will be out of the office starting  07/24/2006 and will not return until
08/09/2006.

Ron Neher on Vacation - Returning Wednesday, August 9

I am on vacation and will return to the office on Wednesday, August 9.

For Freescale AIM projects please contact Susan Thrams.

For Compass Extranet access for Transformation or OAR/ORR activities please
contact Eric T Peterson.

Else contact Judith Firestone.

Regards,

Ron Neher

From sgoldenb at calpoly.edu  Tue Jul 25 16:49:52 2006
From: sgoldenb at calpoly.edu (Stu Goldenberg)
Date: Tue Jul 25 16:50:08 2006
Subject: [Yak] Camp stoves and airlines
In-Reply-To: <20060725170004.8563D1945DC@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060725170004.8563D1945DC@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <44C69200.5010006@calpoly.edu>

I believe the list of "not allowed on airlines" is camp stoves that have 
in the past contained fuels (liquid) such as white gas, Coleman fuel, 
etc.  You might get away with a brand new, never fueled unit.  One would 
hate to have a TSA take their $50 or more stove as something considered 
dangerous.  This also includes the fuel bottle.  Of course, gas stove 
that use propane or butane require a gas bottle that is not permitted 
either, but you could buy cylinders after flying and then give them away 
prior to flying home.

We have an alcohol stove that has no reserve tank.  It is just a double 
walled cup.  No controls on it ... on or off.  I believe it would not be 
a problem.  I unfortunately don't know where to get such stoves since my 
source has gone out of business.  It also leaves carbon on the bottom of 
pans.
-- 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Stu Goldenberg
From alex at phred.org  Tue Jul 25 16:53:11 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue Jul 25 16:53:19 2006
Subject: [Yak] Camp stoves and airlines
In-Reply-To: <44C69200.5010006@calpoly.edu>
References: <20060725170004.8563D1945DC@server1.bikefriday.com>
	<44C69200.5010006@calpoly.edu>
Message-ID: <20060725145149.O3227@phred.org>

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006, Stu Goldenberg wrote:
> We have an alcohol stove that has no reserve tank.  It is just a double 
> walled cup.  No controls on it ... on or off.  I believe it would not be a 
> problem.  I unfortunately don't know where to get such stoves since my source 
> has gone out of business.  It also leaves carbon on the bottom of pans.

That sounds like a Trangia stove.  REI and many other stores sell them.
You can also make your own, check out hikinghq.net.

I've been using homemade alcohol stoves for the last few years, but
just went back to a commercial one.  The JetBoil stoves are great,
very fuel efficient, and well designed for packing.  They make two
models, one that is well designed for a single user and one for 
groups.  I have the group model.

alex
From budfrogs at gmail.com  Tue Jul 25 21:54:02 2006
From: budfrogs at gmail.com (BudFRogS)
Date: Tue Jul 25 21:55:08 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: Yak Digest, Vol 25, Issue 26
In-Reply-To: <20060724170017.68E421942F5@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060724170017.68E421942F5@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <bbe225ef0607251954m5bd680c3h7c54c6c076bf13a8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I use seal skin socks.  This allowed me to wear my Shamno sandles and keep
my feet dry and warm.  I am not sure they will fit inside my regular style
cycling shoes.

I wear my cycling socks under the seal skin.  This stops me from sweating
too badly and getting my feet wet.

If I didn't have my seal skin or just didn't want something so tight one day
I used plastic bags.  These worked pretty well.  Although easy to rip.  If
you have wool socks you can throw the bags over pre-rain and stay relatively
warm and dry.

For touring I never understood booties.  I never thought I would be able to
keep my shoes dry all the time with lots of rain.  I figured it would better
to let my shoes get wet and work on keeping my feet dry/warm.

Someone asked about stoves:  If you are flying remember you probably will
need to buy one there.  Even if you don't use it before the trip the factory
may have/probably tested it before shipping and this will mean it is now
allowed on the plane.  (I think there are stories from the archives about
cleaning the stoves real well between last use and flying.)  I think the one
I have is an MSR.

Tent:  Depending on your weight need/price/size I highly recommend a full
fly.  It helps to keep everything dry during hard rains.  I have a Eureka
and love it!!

Paul


Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:06:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jaap Bos <jwb_bos@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Yak] dry feet... any suggestions?
> To: yak@bikefriday.com
> Message-ID: <20060723190614.99023.qmail@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Dear all,
>
> I just returned from 3 weeks of cycling on my pocket llama in northern
> Norway. Including 2 weeks with freezing cold and almost non-stop rain.
> Hence... anyone who has some great suggestions on how to keep your feet warm
> and dry under those conditions?
>
> What I've considered (but not necessarily tried) sofar:
>
> - waterproof shoes (cycling shoes or hiking boots). But: too bulky....
>
> - gaitors: great, but not sufficient.
>
> - waterproof socks. Gore? Sealskinz? Any experiences?
>
> - shoe covers. On a boat trip above the arctic circle, I did a small
> question round among appr. 10 cyclists, all wearing shoe covers. Nobody was
> satisfied with how they worked. Neither was I.
>
> best, Jaap Bos
>
From john63401 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 26 12:03:23 2006
From: john63401 at gmail.com (J M)
Date: Wed Jul 26 12:03:44 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: Yak Digest, Vol 25, Issue 28
In-Reply-To: <20060726170016.38107194399@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060726170016.38107194399@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <25ddd8de0607261003j5949ae46kaf700e5776e14951@mail.gmail.com>

> I've used the same tent and bag when the temperature dipped well below
> freezing in Utah.  I just wore tights, stocking cap, and long-sleeve jersey
> in the bag in the tent, windows closed.
>
> Dean Wisleder
> Springfield, IL
> '05 AG

Thanks Dean!

I'm not far from you as I'm in Hannibal
From deltasrc at erols.com  Wed Jul 26 16:10:56 2006
From: deltasrc at erols.com (Jeff R.)
Date: Wed Jul 26 13:23:43 2006
Subject: [Yak] Equipment list -stoves in particular
References: <20060726170016.38107194399@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <001901c6b0f8$2427bd80$80e3fea9@vaio>

For overseas travel, I purchased an MSR Whisperlite LP/butane stove. The
beauty is that there are no hassles carrying it overseas (as there is no
need to transport LP with you - LP is readily available all over the EU).
Plus, there are no smelly, messy fuel bottles to worry about, it's clean
burning, weighs nothing, small profile, and a medium-sized LP canister
(profile similar to a large can of beans) is super light and lasts for ever
(mine lasted 4 weeks - brewing coffee cocoa each morning and a pasta/rice
meal each night). When it's time to head home, just donate the remaining LP
to a fellow cyclist at a campground - seems everyone uses one over there.

I purchased mine for @ $50 a few years back and it's been my favorite for
bike touring (having been committed to the Svea 123 and the Optimus 8R
stoves
in my backpacking days).

Jeff

Llama
PR
NWT
Metro
From rbeck at core.com  Wed Jul 26 13:52:13 2006
From: rbeck at core.com (Roger Beck)
Date: Wed Jul 26 13:52:34 2006
Subject: [Yak] Midwest summer sleeping
Message-ID: <001401c6b0e4$9eeafc30$6401a8c0@beck2>

I've toured in the Midwest in the summer.  I have a Kelty summer bag with a bit of insulation on one side and a cotton sheet on the other side.  The bag works great.  Usually I start out on top of the open bag.  Later in the night, I put the cotton side over me and zip up.  If it gets a bit cooler, I just roll over and have the insulation side on top.  My body temperature lowers at night and I almost always end up in the bag.  Everyone's body temp. may be different.  Also, around the Great Lakes it's not uncommon to have 50 degree F at night.  I always sleep with my rain fly on in the Midwest because of the dew.

I've been in the Cascade and Rocky Mtns. with this bag and have slept in upper 40 degree weather - during the summer - and to stay warm, I just put on more cycling clothes before I go to bed.

Have some type of thermal insulating inflatable pad to sleep on.

Roger
From rickbsgu at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 26 17:22:22 2006
From: rickbsgu at yahoo.com (Rick Berger)
Date: Wed Jul 26 17:22:38 2006
Subject: [Yak] Equipment list -stoves in particular
In-Reply-To: <001901c6b0f8$2427bd80$80e3fea9@vaio>
Message-ID: <20060726222222.36821.qmail@web56006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

My main complaints about the cartridge/canister stoves are:
The cartridges/canisters tend to be expensive.They don't burn so hot.
You can't recycle them.If you can't find the cartdridges/canisters, you're (S)OL.MSR also makes the multi-fuel Whisper-Lite, and the extreme Dragonfly.  The former burns white or unleaded gasoline (but watch out for European unleaded gas, I'm told) - the Dragonfly will burn anything, up to and including booze, butter, and hair oil.

YMMV

rickb
 
A mind is not a vessel to be filled,
it is a fire to be ignited.
  -- Plutarch

----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff R. <deltasrc@erols.com>
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 4:10:56 PM
Subject: [Yak] Equipment list -stoves in particular

For overseas travel, I purchased an MSR Whisperlite LP/butane stove. The
beauty is that there are no hassles carrying it overseas (as there is no
need to transport LP with you - LP is readily available all over the EU).
Plus, there are no smelly, messy fuel bottles to worry about, it's clean
burning, weighs nothing, small profile, and a medium-sized LP canister
(profile similar to a large can of beans) is super light and lasts for ever
(mine lasted 4 weeks - brewing coffee cocoa each morning and a pasta/rice
meal each night). When it's time to head home, just donate the remaining LP
to a fellow cyclist at a campground - seems everyone uses one over there.

I purchased mine for @ $50 a few years back and it's been my favorite for
bike touring (having been committed to the Svea 123 and the Optimus 8R
stoves
in my backpacking days).

Jeff

Llama
PR
NWT
Metro
_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak




From m at ttjarvis.com  Wed Jul 26 17:26:28 2006
From: m at ttjarvis.com (Matthew Jarvis)
Date: Wed Jul 26 17:26:34 2006
Subject: [Yak] Equipment list -stoves in particular
In-Reply-To: <20060726222222.36821.qmail@web56006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <001901c6b0f8$2427bd80$80e3fea9@vaio>
	<20060726222222.36821.qmail@web56006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <51982.66.224.46.90.1153952788.squirrel@apache.willamette.net>

> European unleaded gas, I'm told) - the Dragonfly will burn anything, up to
> and including booze, butter, and hair oil.
>

That'll come in handy when I'm camping near all the hippies we have around
here in Eugene....  ;)

Matt Jarvis
IT Manager
Bike Friday


From alex at phred.org  Wed Jul 26 17:27:51 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Wed Jul 26 17:27:59 2006
Subject: [Yak] Equipment list -stoves in particular
In-Reply-To: <20060726222222.36821.qmail@web56006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <20060726222222.36821.qmail@web56006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060726152423.R3227@phred.org>

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Rick Berger wrote:
> My main complaints about the cartridge/canister stoves are:
> The cartridges/canisters tend to be expensive.

With the JetBoil or other high efficiency stoves they don't cost that
much per use compared to alcohol or gas stove.  A $3 canister will
last two people about 5 days of hot breakfasts and dinners, that is
cheap enough.

> They don't burn so hot.

I'm not sure what the issue is here, the boil times are pretty good.

> You can't recycle them.

Yes you can.  Puncture the canister once empty and it recycles just
fine.

> If you can't find the cartdridges/canisters, you're (S)OL.

Agreed.  This is my biggest concern.  On the other hand I haven't been
on a really long (over a week) bike trip yet and it isn't a big deal
to bring 2 canisters on a trip.

alex
From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 26 17:29:12 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Wed Jul 26 17:29:19 2006
Subject: [Yak] More camping gear
Message-ID: <20060726222912.11151.qmail@web34712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The drawback to hammocks is finding a place to hang
them. Many parks do not like to have items hung from
their trees as having thousands of campers hanging
ropes and hammocks etc from the trees eventually
damages and kills them. This is not as much of a
problem in the National Forests but is more of a
problem in California State Parks. Of course, in those
states where it more of a problem getting rid of trees
than it is getting them to grow or where the camping
population is not as intense as it is in California,
that may be no problem at all. But for the same
reasons for taking a liquid fuel stove on an aircraft,
why bother with the potential problem of having to use
the hammock as a ground cloth for your sleeping bag
and having no mattress? The self-contained hammocks
look neat. I have seen them on a couple of rides, but
I noticed that the riders who used them one year did
not use them the following year????
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CA
From goltermann at comcast.net  Wed Jul 26 21:50:51 2006
From: goltermann at comcast.net (Wilbur Goltermann Jr.)
Date: Wed Jul 26 21:53:30 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: Equip list (J M)
In-Reply-To: <20060726170015.CB93C194394@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060726170015.CB93C194394@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <017DACB1-3531-4824-AF13-530F137E74C1@comcast.net>

Hello again,

A tent would be useful in any situation, whereas a hammock requires  
some way to hang it.

I certainly wouldn't suggest anything but a very lightweight sleeping  
bag.  I've been looking over a bag from Lafuma, very lightweight and  
rated at 40 degrees F.  I've been doing a bit of web research on this  
bag - the "Warm'n Light 600g Down" and found the best price on the  
net to be $79.96 with shipping included from:

	http://www.paragonsports.com/Paragon/Shop? 
DSP=40000&PCR=1:101:1012:10108:100435&IID=6239-LFC% 
200005&Key=LAFUMA_Warmn_Light_g_Down_40F_Updown_Sleeping_Bags_CampingTra 
vel_Gear

This appears to be the most recent model - older models are  
constructed slightly differently and may not be as useful over as  
wide a range of temperatures.  Other options include a silk "Cocoon"  
which is a very lightweight solution which I carry use instead of  
renting sheets when staying in youth holtsles.  I've used the thing  
as a stand-in sleeping bag for very warm conditions as well.  I seem  
to recall buying mine at REI for about $50.

Another Yakster made a comment about stoves and airline travel, and  
his suggestion about using a gas canister stove, such as the jet boil  
system, might be the wisest way to go if you're traveling by airplane.

Have fun!

Wilbur


On Jul 26, 2006, at 11:00 AM, yak-request@bikefriday.com wrote:

> Thanks Wilbur!
>
> Would your recommend hammock tents such as the Hennesy Hammock?  Are
> you more inclined to get a tent that can be setup ANYWHERE and not
> depend on hanging between trees like the hammock tent is?
>
> Also... do you think a sleeping bag is even necessary given my touring
> will be in hot humid areas as the Midwest?

From jlawrence99 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 27 07:01:29 2006
From: jlawrence99 at gmail.com (J Lawrence)
Date: Thu Jul 27 07:02:10 2006
Subject: [Yak] MKS Quick-release pedals & Power-Grips
Message-ID: <cc9b21d60607270501h7e2eb7d0x52d15553823af397@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone had any experience with quick-release pedals?
I've only managed to locate some made by MKS. (I believe BF has them in
their accessory catalogue).
Are they good quality?
Do they hold up for touring use?
Do they increase the effective width between pedals (i.e. do they push the
pedals more outbound relative to the centre-line of the bike)? I think I've
seen this measurement referred to as the "Q-factor", but I'm not sure.


Also anyone used "Power-Grips" with their pedals?
I currently use Shimano M324 (SPD one side, platform the other). These
provide the option of non-cleated shoes but without the control that allows
a high-cadence.
My thoughts are that "Power-Grips" with a conventional cage-type pedal might
allow the wearing of non-cleated shoes, be more packable than conventional
clips and straps, and still provide good foot control.


Jeff Lawrence/Toronto
(waiting for NWT to arrive in August)
From waranoid at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 27 08:27:26 2006
From: waranoid at yahoo.com (Marc Plum)
Date: Thu Jul 27 08:27:36 2006
Subject: [Yak] MKS Quick-release pedals & Power-Grips
References: <cc9b21d60607270501h7e2eb7d0x52d15553823af397@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A2C199F-441D-4515-883D-DB9D57A00BFB@yahoo.com>





> From: "J Lawrence" <jlawrence99@gmail.com>
> Date: July 27, 2006 8:01:29 AM EDT
> To: yak@bikefriday.com
> Subject: [Yak] MKS Quick-release pedals & Power-Grips
>
> Has anyone had any experience with quick-release pedals?
> I've only managed to locate some made by MKS. (I believe BF has  
> them in
> their accessory catalogue).
> Are they good quality?

I use the MKS AR2 QR pedals on my Pocket Tourist, and also on a  
Dahon.  This is the one sided version, like a road pedal.  There is  
also a two sided one, like a cage pedal, and a new clipless version,  
similar to SPD, but with their own proprietary cleat.

The AR2s seem quite well made to me, and they release and re-attach  
easily.  The only thing I don't care for on them is the little  
separate plastic retention clips, which you're supposed to put on to  
prevent the fitting from accidentally releasing.  In my opinion, they  
aren't really necessary; you just have to give the fitting a good tug  
to make sure that it's fully engaged, and it's not going to come off  
during use.  If they were necessary, however, they'd be a pretty poor  
solution, as it's fairly easy to lose them, or break them, and kind  
of hard to find replacements.  I lost them for one pair of the  
pedals, and haven't had any problems without them.

> Do they hold up for touring use?

I've used mine for daily 25 mile round trip commutes.  Haven't  
subjected them to the rigors of an extended tour.

> Do they increase the effective width between pedals (i.e. do they  
> push the
> pedals more outbound relative to the centre-line of the bike)? I  
> think I've
> seen this measurement referred to as the "Q-factor", but I'm not sure.

Never even thought about that one.  All I can say is that my feet  
appear to be in a normal position.

>
>
> Also anyone used "Power-Grips" with their pedals?

That's what I use now on five out of six bikes, having downgraded  
from SPD.  I'm really sold on these now.  I use them with the quick  
release pedals on two bikes, and on one sided platform pedals on the  
others.  For the kind of non-racing riding that I do, I find the foot  
retention to be just fine, they're easy to get out of, and with a  
little practice, easy enough to get back into while riding.  The  
broad strap is more comfortable on the top of my feet than regular  
toe clips.  I like being able to use regular (cheap) thick soled  
sneakers.  If you have to walk any distance, I found even the most  
walkable mountain bike style  SPD shoes to have soles that were a bit  
too stiff for comfort.  The one drawback might be if you have larger  
feet, and need to use the large size of Power Grips.  I use the  
regular size, which has a micro-adjust, so you can tweak the fit.  I  
think the larger ones still use a different system, where it will  
only adjust in fixed increments.

By the way, my one bike without Power Grips has BMX pedals without  
any foot retention system at all.

Mind you, I also thought that SPD was good, when I was using that.

Marc Plum

From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 27 11:00:09 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Thu Jul 27 11:00:16 2006
Subject: [Yak] MKS quick release pedals and Power Straps
Message-ID: <20060727160009.72081.qmail@web34715.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

That is the exact configuration I use on my Tandem XL
which we have had for about five years. No problems.
We rode the tandem on the Bike Across Kansas ride and
we also rode it on the Tour de Wyoming. We have also
ridden it on several day rides from 60 - 100 miles in
duration. Five years later we have had no problems
with either system, although I have managed to lose
two of the black plastic safety clips for the pedals.
I have been meaning to contact Friday to see if they
have extras but have not yet been able to overcome
inertia. The clips do not interfere with function,
they are merely lawyer clips and like most lawyer
inspired junk serve no earthly useful purpose except
to add to the cost of the product. Power Straps, IMO,
are the best compromise between toe clips and cleats,
however unlike most compromises, they actually work
quite well.
I don't know if they have more than one size strap,
but if you have really big feet, you might have a
problem. My feet are not so long, but I take a EE or
EEE shoe, depending on the manufacturer, so my straps
are almost at maximum. I still have about a quarter
inch more adjustment toward the larger side. I have no
financial interest in MK or Power Strap.
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CA
From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 27 12:08:02 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Thu Jul 27 12:08:19 2006
Subject: [Yak] stoves and hammocks
In-Reply-To: <20060727132742.5C29D194609@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060727132742.5C29D194609@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <3E448872-5F25-438F-9EB1-F1530480D61C@yahoo.com>

Hawaiian Airlines will not let you take a used stove - any stove - on  
their planes in case it 'blows up'. I have a beloved mini-Trangia  
which is a super simple, ultra compact stove that runs even on  
rubbing alcohol at a pinch. They wanted to confiscate the burner part  
- which is just a little screw top metal core with vent holes. I got  
a friend to come and collect it and mail it on to me - so it could  
blow up the USPS plane instead. I think I might have mentioned this  
before. YOu could lose a spendy piece of equipment with them.
Watch for a review of the Hennessey Hammock, meanwhile, take a look  
at my pics of using it in Hawaii earlier this year:
http://www.galfromdownunder.com/hawaii - click on Kauai-Kalalau- 
Napali coast link.
The Gal
From faunt at panix.com  Thu Jul 27 12:19:39 2006
From: faunt at panix.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604)
Date: Thu Jul 27 12:19:55 2006
Subject: [Yak] Power Straps, really Power Grips
In-Reply-To: <20060727170004.3B62819447B@server1.bikefriday.com>
	(yak-request@bikefriday.com)
References: <20060727170004.3B62819447B@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <200607271719.k6RHJde29247@panix1.panix.com>

In case anyone is confused, I think the brand name of these is "Power
Grips", and there is an extra-long version available.  I used to ride with
pretty large steel-toed work boots, and the extra-long were necessary.

And I put a one on a Brompton folding pedal, quite successfully.

I've got to say, I like the mini-toeclips better for city riding with
regular shoes, since I never quite got to the point where removing my
feet from the straps was so instinctive that I felt entirely
comfortable that I'd get my feet out in a real emergency.

I've got standard platform pedals, with miniclips, coming on my NWT
that's on order, and will see if quick-release or folding pedals seem
to be appropriate in use.

73, doug



From budfrogs at gmail.com  Thu Jul 27 13:19:31 2006
From: budfrogs at gmail.com (BudFRogS)
Date: Thu Jul 27 13:19:36 2006
Subject: [Yak] Sleeping bag
Message-ID: <bbe225ef0607271119t4f5decffwdcd44f3d3f3250a5@mail.gmail.com>

While talking about sleeping bags....

I need a new summer bag.  Mostly for car camping/crashing on a friend floor
and such.

I have a cheap NOrth 49 bag which has a nylon shell and polar fleece
innard.  It is nice.  But my problem is I brought it in a hurry and it
doesn't fit me.  If I wear my polar fleeze jacket to bed I am warm and
toasty when the temp dips down a bit.

I am 6'1 and like to stretch out and am not the smallest guys.  My bag is
great to keep me warm from my arm  pits down.  It does not really fit me
with my arms inside.

Anyone have any not so expensive recommendations for a long, wide non-mommy
3-season/summer?

Cheers,
Paul
From jularaz at netzero.net  Thu Jul 27 14:31:22 2006
From: jularaz at netzero.net (jularaz@netzero.net)
Date: Thu Jul 27 14:32:45 2006
Subject: [Yak] MKS quick release pedals and Power Straps
Message-ID: <20060727.123138.8480.189256@webmail35.nyc.untd.com>

Hi-All--I only wish that ChuckieV would stop using the Yak for his personal problems --I muet agree that the quick release with power grips on my NWT work great. I threw away the worthless plastic stops that we all will now refer to asd Chuckie V'sPlease keep your snide remarks out of the Yak.
From bicycleflyer at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 27 14:39:15 2006
From: bicycleflyer at yahoo.com (Paul Patterson)
Date: Thu Jul 27 14:39:23 2006
Subject: [Yak] Power grips
Message-ID: <20060727193915.24334.qmail@web52105.mail.yahoo.com>

I have never used the quick release pedals, but I have used power grips. Bottom line ... I liked them. I found them easier to use than conventional clips and straps and very pack friendly. I originally installed them on my BF-Metro but they were so effective that I transferred them to my Pocket-Rocket. The only maintenance issue I had is one of the straps pulled loose. This was easily repaired roadside and I continued my ride.

I have only two, very minor complaints.

1. At around mile 50, the strap would hurt the top of my feet. I would solve this by slightly moving my feet within the strap.

2. Sometimes while packed one of the straps would get deformed. Power grips work best when the strap is held open in a big loop. When the strap gets deformed it makes entry a bit difficult. One ride of about 30 miles usually reshaped the strap.

I don't recommend using shoes with aggressive tread. This is especially true if the pedals have any kind of lugs or spikes for gripping. Shoes with smooth tread soles worked best for me.

I recently replaced the power grips with those pedals that have SPD on one side and platform on the other. I like this setup much better. The trade off of better performance verses packing an extra pair of shoes was well worth it to me. But I don't do multi day tours. If I were touring I would opt for the power grips for sure.

Paul in Cincy

 		
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low  PC-to-Phone call rates.
From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 27 18:39:36 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Thu Jul 27 18:39:51 2006
Subject: [Yak] Keep on smiling
Message-ID: <20060727233936.35795.qmail@web34712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

And a happy day to you, Jularaz.
CEV
From frey at optusnet.com.au  Thu Jul 27 18:54:28 2006
From: frey at optusnet.com.au (Peter Frey)
Date: Thu Jul 27 18:54:34 2006
Subject: [Yak] MKS Quick-release pedals & Power-Grips
In-Reply-To: <cc9b21d60607270501h7e2eb7d0x52d15553823af397@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501c6b1d7$ffabec20$0301a8c0@L5R4>


Hi,

I use MKS Q/R pedals on my Friday Fix with Zefal plastic toe clips and
straps.  My partner uses MKS Q/R pedals with Power Grips.

The MKS pedals have held up well for over 30K km (my pair) and around 10K km
on my partner's NWT.

The bearings on my pedals have become notchy, and will require replacement.
This is most likely due to the fact that the pedal shaft can rotate inside
the Q/R fitting.  The Q/R fitting becomes the rotational point, not the
bearings in the pedal body.  This can result in brinelling of the bearings.


The plastic Q/R clips are unique to the MKS pedals.  I have never seen a
similar item on a Q/R hydraulic or pneumatic fitting.  They are not required
as it highly improbable that the Q/R can be "accidentally" released.  It
takes quite a concerted effort to remove them intentionally.  We do not use
the clips.

MKS do make a Q/R version that is similar to the old school Campagnolo track
pedal.  Ours are the more common single sided road style pedal.  If anyone
can locate a source for the track style pedal, please drop me an email.

I have note noticed an increase in Q factor - but I have not measured it to
be sure.

Annette likes the Power Grips as they are easier on her feet than clips and
straps.  She does not like clipless pedals.  

Cheers,
Peter & Annette (AU)


-----Original Message-----
From: yak-bounces@bikefriday.com [mailto:yak-bounces@bikefriday.com] On
Behalf Of J Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, 27 July 2006 10:01 PM
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Subject: [Yak] MKS Quick-release pedals & Power-Grips

Has anyone had any experience with quick-release pedals?
I've only managed to locate some made by MKS. (I believe BF has them in
their accessory catalogue).
Are they good quality?
Do they hold up for touring use?
Do they increase the effective width between pedals (i.e. do they push the
pedals more outbound relative to the centre-line of the bike)? I think I've
seen this measurement referred to as the "Q-factor", but I'm not sure.


Also anyone used "Power-Grips" with their pedals?
I currently use Shimano M324 (SPD one side, platform the other). These
provide the option of non-cleated shoes but without the control that allows
a high-cadence.
My thoughts are that "Power-Grips" with a conventional cage-type pedal might
allow the wearing of non-cleated shoes, be more packable than conventional
clips and straps, and still provide good foot control.


Jeff Lawrence/Toronto
(waiting for NWT to arrive in August)
_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/401 - Release Date: 26/07/2006


From sdrtha at insightbb.com  Thu Jul 27 23:33:28 2006
From: sdrtha at insightbb.com (Mark Atwell)
Date: Thu Jul 27 23:33:45 2006
Subject: [Yak] International travel
Message-ID: <c73ae9c70607272133t3fd5fa2dof00b1bf719e45b54@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a little embarassed to admit it but I have no clue as to how to book
international travel online.  Oh sure, I could just throw money at the thing
but I want to get a good deal with low travel times, adequate connection
times, and no C d G to ORLY transfer.  The trip location is a secret for my
wife (and we are negotiating about a BF for her).  We are travelling from
Louisville (SDF) to Montpellier, France (MPL) in September.  Do you use
Orbitz, travelocity, airline websites??? How to get from DeGaulle to the TGV
to ride to MPL (I imagine riding the TGV would be fun for us)...?  Anyone?
Thanks,
Snake


-- 
If you had Skype we'd be talking instead of typing!
From frey at optusnet.com.au  Thu Jul 27 23:46:12 2006
From: frey at optusnet.com.au (Peter Frey)
Date: Thu Jul 27 23:47:40 2006
Subject: [Yak] MKS Quick-release pedals & Power-Grips
In-Reply-To: <cc9b21d60607270501h7e2eb7d0x52d15553823af397@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004501c6b200$c0e7f910$0301a8c0@L5R4>

Hi Jeff,

I went down to the garage and placed a Speedplay Frog next to the MKS Q/R.
The centreline of the Frog lines up with the tab (the little protrusion that
one flicks with your toe to spin a pedal around) on the MKS pedal.  The tab
is pretty well on the centreline of the MKS pedal cage.  So I can conclude
that the Q factor does not change.

Cheers,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: yak-bounces@bikefriday.com [mailto:yak-bounces@bikefriday.com] On
Behalf Of J Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, 27 July 2006 10:01 PM
To: yak@bikefriday.com
Subject: [Yak] MKS Quick-release pedals & Power-Grips

Has anyone had any experience with quick-release pedals?
I've only managed to locate some made by MKS. (I believe BF has them in
their accessory catalogue).
Are they good quality?
Do they hold up for touring use?
Do they increase the effective width between pedals (i.e. do they push the
pedals more outbound relative to the centre-line of the bike)? I think I've
seen this measurement referred to as the "Q-factor", but I'm not sure.


Also anyone used "Power-Grips" with their pedals?
I currently use Shimano M324 (SPD one side, platform the other). These
provide the option of non-cleated shoes but without the control that allows
a high-cadence.
My thoughts are that "Power-Grips" with a conventional cage-type pedal might
allow the wearing of non-cleated shoes, be more packable than conventional
clips and straps, and still provide good foot control.


Jeff Lawrence/Toronto
(waiting for NWT to arrive in August)
_______________________________________________
Yak mailing list
Yak@bikefriday.com
http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak


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From jtabaco at optonline.net  Fri Jul 28 02:12:02 2006
From: jtabaco at optonline.net (Joey Tabaco)
Date: Fri Jul 28 02:12:57 2006
Subject: [Yak] Keep on smiling with Power Grips
In-Reply-To: <20060727233936.35795.qmail@web34712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c6b215$1fce7800$640da8c0@tabacofamily.org>

Chuck...as another confirmed Power Grips user for around 20 years, who uses
them now on my Air Glide, I found your 'snide' remarks not only funny, but
true:)...joey


From chastev67 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 28 08:41:11 2006
From: chastev67 at hotmail.com (Steve Chang)
Date: Fri Jul 28 08:42:42 2006
Subject: [Yak] International travel
Message-ID: <BAY106-F11722EF4AF160C6ABE203BB0590@phx.gbl>

Others may disagree, espcially as I am vouching for a Bill Gates sponsored 
site, but I've found that Expedia.com works best, and often times has the 
best (or at least competitive) prices.  Once you enter your desired 
itinerary, it essentially guides you through options of hotels, 
entertainment, ground-travel options, restaurants (if so desired), 
etc.,etc., etc.  It basically walks you through the entire process.  If you 
have time, you can also take the information you learn from Expedia, and 
then go to individual websites to see if you can get better prices.  To be 
honest though, I'd use expedia....they offer cancellation policies, etc. for 
nominal prices so that if things go awry, and you need to change your plans, 
you can do so without much hassle.

Steve


From lynchiang at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 28 12:51:50 2006
From: lynchiang at yahoo.com (Lynette Chiang)
Date: Fri Jul 28 12:53:40 2006
Subject: [Yak] Would you like to recommend me?
Message-ID: <2BCE67C8-C025-448E-970B-4E03A0F70142@yahoo.com>

Yaksters,
This  is a bit unconventional, then again, Bike Friday is bit  
unconventional ...
Yes, I get paid to do what I do at Bike Friday and have a review  
coming up.
This is my very first job review I have had in the 5 years since I  
landed on these shores.
I have to get some compliments (presumeably) from customers.
And since my job exists in here in cyberspace with you all, and those  
I've visited and lodged and ridden with also tend to be here in  
cyberspace, this is an entirely appropriate place to ask.
It's also less confronting than asking some of you directly in case  
you'd rather not for whatever reason.
Would some of you like to email me a cyber-recommendation based on  
what you know of me - just a paragraph or whatever you want to say?
I think I did ask some of you before but that was for the immigration  
process - slightly different.
Criticism is also welcome - improvement is an ongoing process.
My bio is http://www.bikefriday.com/evangelist
Please reply off list as I am sure the world will not want to read this.
I need it by next Wednesday.
Muchas gracias!

Lynette Chiang
Bike Friday Adventurette
Recent adventure: http://www.bikefriday.com/route66
http://www.galfromdownunder.com
Cell: 541-513-7711




From charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 28 14:28:34 2006
From: charles_e_voigtsberger at yahoo.com (charles voigtsberger)
Date: Fri Jul 28 14:28:47 2006
Subject: [Yak] Power Straps vs. Power "Grips"
Message-ID: <20060728192834.56948.qmail@web34704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Doug is absolutely  correct, I went out to the garage
and looked at the devices and they are boldly
imprinted "Power Straps". Because my wife and I have
different size settings on the straps, I have marked
the straps with "LF" "RF", "LR" and "RR" with a Pilot
Super Color permanent ink marker to make replacement
on the bike simpler. Five years and many miles later
through some rain the markings are still clear.
Chuck Voigtsberger
Ventura CA
From waranoid at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 28 14:58:14 2006
From: waranoid at yahoo.com (Marc Plum)
Date: Fri Jul 28 14:58:23 2006
Subject: [Yak] Power Straps vs. Power "Grips"
References: <20060728192834.56948.qmail@web34704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4293DC28-5F90-414E-9C99-E1455422FE53@yahoo.com>

Grips or straps (mine are equally clearly marked "Power Grips"), I've  
taken a hint from Rivendell, and mounted them inside out to hide the  
rather oversized logo.

Marc Plum

Begin forwarded message:

> From: charles voigtsberger <charles_e_voigtsberger@yahoo.com>
> Date: July 28, 2006 3:28:34 PM EDT
> To: Yak@bikefriday.com
> Subject: [Yak] Power Straps vs. Power "Grips"
>
> Doug is absolutely  correct, I went out to the garage
> and looked at the devices and they are boldly
> imprinted "Power Straps". Because my wife and I have
> different size settings on the straps, I have marked
> the straps with "LF" "RF", "LR" and "RR" with a Pilot
> Super Color permanent ink marker to make replacement
> on the bike simpler. Five years and many miles later
> through some rain the markings are still clear.
> Chuck Voigtsberger
> Ventura CA
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak@bikefriday.com
> http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak

From wildwestward at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 28 16:17:56 2006
From: wildwestward at earthlink.net (William D Kennedy)
Date: Fri Jul 28 16:20:23 2006
Subject: [Yak] Bridge Pedal
Message-ID: <928bcf6e7987b158129a7cde40f0d202@earthlink.net>

I am headed to the Rose City to enjoy some live music on top of the 
Marquam Bridge.

I am going to be on my Friday on Sunday in Portland.

Are there any others with this plan for August 13th?

If so there may be a great shot of What do many Fridays do on Sunday?

Bill Kennedy
Klamath Falls, OR
wildwestward@earthlink.net

From hbecquet at libertysurf.fr  Sat Jul 29 01:23:07 2006
From: hbecquet at libertysurf.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Herv=E9_BECQUET?=)
Date: Sat Jul 29 01:24:10 2006
Subject: [Yak] RE: International travel
Message-ID: <002a01c6b2d7$75d5daa0$3b1caa50@herve>

The TGV station where you can catch a train to Montpellier is located in Charles de Gaulle Airport.
Enjoy your trip in France.

Herv?, France
From law at dasherm.com  Sun Jul 30 12:12:34 2006
From: law at dasherm.com (David Sherman)
Date: Sun Jul 30 12:13:06 2006
Subject: [Yak] Getting to Ashland
Message-ID: <509CF370-4232-4B48-A9E0-E6150C3242E5@dasherm.com>

My family is planning a trip to Ashland to see a couple plays. I was  
thinking of using it as an excuse for some solo touring. (Despite  
years of cajoling and bike purchases, the rest of the family prefers  
car travel).  My thought... take the train from Salem to Klamath  
Falls, then spend a couple days getting to Ashland. Meet 'em there,  
take the car back. Or ride back to Klamath Falls for the train back.

Anyone with a better suggestion? Any recommendations for food/lodging/ 
camping along the way?
From m at ttjarvis.com  Sun Jul 30 16:31:51 2006
From: m at ttjarvis.com (Matthew Jarvis)
Date: Sun Jul 30 16:32:05 2006
Subject: [Yak] Getting to Ashland
In-Reply-To: <509CF370-4232-4B48-A9E0-E6150C3242E5@dasherm.com>
Message-ID: <IFEBJGJPFLGPNMILPEGBAEMCJEAA.m@ttjarvis.com>

> [mailto:yak-bounces@bikefriday.com]On Behalf Of David Sherman
> Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:13 AM
> Subject: [Yak] Getting to Ashland
>
> My family is planning a trip to Ashland to see a couple plays. I was
> thinking of using it as an excuse for some solo touring. (Despite
> years of cajoling and bike purchases, the rest of the family prefers
> car travel).  My thought... take the train from Salem to Klamath
> Falls, then spend a couple days getting to Ashland. Meet 'em there,
> take the car back. Or ride back to Klamath Falls for the train back.
>
> Anyone with a better suggestion? Any recommendations for food/lodging/
> camping along the way?

I could be wrong, but from Eugene but I think the 'train' southbound is
actually a bus, as in tour bus... called something like the 'Coastal
Starlight' or something... I'd check the Amtrak website to confirm that...

Matt Jarvis
IT Manager
Bike Friday
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006

From bryan at bentrideronline.com  Sun Jul 30 17:50:24 2006
From: bryan at bentrideronline.com (Bryan Ball)
Date: Sun Jul 30 17:51:12 2006
Subject: [Yak] Stelvios
Message-ID: <44CD37B0.8090908@bentrideronline.com>

In my recumbent experience, I've found that it's best to run the 406 
Stelvios right at 100 psi and NO MORE.  They don't seem to handle the 
higher pressures as well.  The 451 version seems to be a bit better.  
And the newer Stelvios with the "straight" center tread are much better 
than the ones with the "arrow shaped" tread.
From law at dasherm.com  Sun Jul 30 21:37:17 2006
From: law at dasherm.com (David Sherman)
Date: Sun Jul 30 21:37:51 2006
Subject: [Yak] Getting to Ashland
In-Reply-To: <IFEBJGJPFLGPNMILPEGBAEMCJEAA.m@ttjarvis.com>
References: <IFEBJGJPFLGPNMILPEGBAEMCJEAA.m@ttjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <4ACD7CD4-E59F-4BB3-9C82-D1530C0BAD9D@dasherm.com>

As best as I can decipher from the Amtrak web site, Amtrak provides a  
southbound "thruway" service (i.e., bus) to points south. However,  
the train to LA leaves Eugene to the East and stops at Klamath Falls  
before crossing the CA border. Klamath Falls is about 80 miles from  
Ashland, so a two-day jaunt with some wandering seems mellow.

On Jul 30, 2006, at 2:31 PM, Matthew Jarvis wrote:

> I could be wrong, but from Eugene but I think the 'train'  
> southbound is
> actually a bus, as in tour bus... called something like the 'Coastal
> Starlight' or something... I'd check the Amtrak website to confirm  
> that...
>
> Matt Jarvis
> IT Manager
> Bike Friday
From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Mon Jul 31 03:51:34 2006
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Mon Jul 31 03:51:49 2006
Subject: [Yak] Speiclaized Nimbus, conti contact, Marathon Racer, primo 1.5
Message-ID: <44CDC496.5020409@axelrod.plus.com>

I'm *still* b.....ing about with tires (tyres).

I had Comet Primo 20x1.75's and was very happy with them
but the sidewall split on the rear.  If it had been possible I
would have just bought the same again but you can't get them in
1.75 now.  My gearing is on the low side so I'm loathe to lose
width (height really) as it will lower the gearing more.

For the time being I took the less worn front and put it
on the rear (but I will have to replace it soon) and I'm
trying various things on the front but haven't found one I'm
happy with so far.  I'm finding the choices available for
a slick are quite limited.

I tried a Schwalbe Marathon 20x1.75 but found it was quit
sort-of solid, heavy and sluggish. So I tried a Schwalbe
Marathon Slick 20 x 1.35 on the front.  It rides
GREAT!!!! - precise, light and fast.  The difference in size
over the 1.75 is quite large and it looks odd with this
on front and 1.75 on rear (who cares) but more to the point
I will lose top end if I put one on the rear (I can't afford
to sort out that to get a better range at this point - maybe
later when I have more money).  I measured the difference rolling
it along the ground and its around a couple of inches per
revolution.

Well I'm going to end up with a garage full of unused tyres
at this rate, but any views of these ?

Specialized Nimbus Ex 20 x 1.5

Conti Contact 20 x 1.75

Schwalbe Marathon Racer 20 x 1.5

Comet Primo 20 x 1.5

Anyone tried them ?

I may be forced to either accept sluggish heaviness or
go down to 1.5.  I was thinking about maybe putting the
Schwalbe Marathon 1.75 or a Conti Contact 1.75 (neither
of which is slick)
on the back (to keep the gearing as it is)
and keeping the Marathon Slick on the front
as it is so nice to ride on.

I must sort this out before I go to China in September
but would like to deal with it sooner as I'm fed up with
searching the web tyre dealers and want to just get on
with normal riding again.

andy
From BradMiter at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 31 05:44:53 2006
From: BradMiter at earthlink.net (Bradford Miter)
Date: Mon Jul 31 05:46:53 2006
Subject: [Yak] Speiclaized Nimbus, conti contact, Marathon Racer, primo 1.5
In-Reply-To: <44CDC496.5020409@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <000201c6b48e$5b4d34e0$0132a8c0@DESKTOP1>

I am a fan of the Avocet Fast-Grip tire, 20x1.75.  Since I last had to buy
some they have changed the design a bit but I'll bet they are still good.
They have no tread but this is actually better for running on wet pavement
than are grooved tires.  I have used them on my Two'sDay Tandem with great
success.  I tried Continental 20x1.35 on tours and found we got numerous
flats.  We have done over 5000 miles on Avocets with no flats but we did
have one casing failure when we ran over a large sharp rock or piece of
metal.  The tire became deformed but did not puncture and we rode on to our
youth hostel which was a couple of miles away.

Check them out at
http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/parts/406wheel/wheelbmx.html.  

Brad


From dwilbraham at suscom-maine.net  Mon Jul 31 06:34:55 2006
From: dwilbraham at suscom-maine.net (Derek & Sharon Wilbraham)
Date: Mon Jul 31 06:36:02 2006
Subject: [Yak] Triplet siting on Martha's Vineyard
Message-ID: <44CDEADF.8010503@suscom-maine.net>

Hi there,

We were riding our Red Friday Triplet on Martha's Vineyard (Sunday, July 
29) heading towards the bike ferry and we saw a Blue triplet going the 
other way towing a kid trailer. Just wondering who it was and if you 
live in New England. We live in Bath, Maine and were visiting an 
acquaintance that lives on the island whom we met through the 
tandem@hobbes listserv. He has a "big wheel" triplet and wanted to get a 
gathering of long bikes for the weekend. It was just us, and another 
family with two tandems that could make it, but if more from the area 
show up one day, could be a fun time!

Sharon, Derek, Jenny Wilbraham
Bath, ME

From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Mon Jul 31 07:09:59 2006
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Mon Jul 31 07:12:52 2006
Subject: [Yak] Speiclaized Nimbus, conti contact, Marathon Racer, primo 1.5
In-Reply-To: <44CDF28D.30700@sbcglobal.net>
References: <44CDC496.5020409@axelrod.plus.com> <44CDF28D.30700@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <44CDF317.3040703@axelrod.plus.com>

Ted Campbell wrote:

> Have you tried the Tioga Comp Pool 20x1.75 tire?

can't get them.
out of stock everywhere.

> I've never used them myself, but they're know for having very low
> rolling resistance.
> 
> There's also the Avocet FasGrip Freestyle 20x1.75 tire. I haven't used
> it but I think there's someone on the YAK list who thinks a lot about them.

ditto.

andy
> 
> Ted Campbell
> 
> 
> Andy Heath wrote:
> 
>>I'm *still* b.....ing about with tires (tyres).
>>
>>I had Comet Primo 20x1.75's and was very happy with them
>>but the sidewall split on the rear.  If it had been possible I
>>would have just bought the same again but you can't get them in
>>1.75 now.  My gearing is on the low side so I'm loathe to lose
>>width (height really) as it will lower the gearing more.
>>
>>For the time being I took the less worn front and put it
>>on the rear (but I will have to replace it soon) and I'm
>>trying various things on the front but haven't found one I'm
>>happy with so far.  I'm finding the choices available for
>>a slick are quite limited.
>>
>>I tried a Schwalbe Marathon 20x1.75 but found it was quit
>>sort-of solid, heavy and sluggish. So I tried a Schwalbe
>>Marathon Slick 20 x 1.35 on the front.  It rides
>>GREAT!!!! - precise, light and fast.  The difference in size
>>over the 1.75 is quite large and it looks odd with this
>>on front and 1.75 on rear (who cares) but more to the point
>>I will lose top end if I put one on the rear (I can't afford
>>to sort out that to get a better range at this point - maybe
>>later when I have more money).  I measured the difference rolling
>>it along the ground and its around a couple of inches per
>>revolution.
>>
>>Well I'm going to end up with a garage full of unused tyres
>>at this rate, but any views of these ?
>>
>>Specialized Nimbus Ex 20 x 1.5
>>
>>Conti Contact 20 x 1.75
>>
>>Schwalbe Marathon Racer 20 x 1.5
>>
>>Comet Primo 20 x 1.5
>>
>>Anyone tried them ?
>>
>>I may be forced to either accept sluggish heaviness or
>>go down to 1.5.  I was thinking about maybe putting the
>>Schwalbe Marathon 1.75 or a Conti Contact 1.75 (neither
>>of which is slick)
>>on the back (to keep the gearing as it is)
>>and keeping the Marathon Slick on the front
>>as it is so nice to ride on.
>>
>>I must sort this out before I go to China in September
>>but would like to deal with it sooner as I'm fed up with
>>searching the web tyre dealers and want to just get on
>>with normal riding again.
>>
>>andy
>>_______________________________________________
>>Yak mailing list
>>Yak@bikefriday.com
>>http://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 

From bryan at bentrideronline.com  Mon Jul 31 07:46:15 2006
From: bryan at bentrideronline.com (Bryan Ball)
Date: Mon Jul 31 07:51:01 2006
Subject: [Yak] NWT vs Air Glide
Message-ID: <44CDFB97.8010805@bentrideronline.com>

What are the merits of getting an Air Glide over the NWT?  Is either one 
more difficult to pack/unpack than the other?  Can the Air Glide handle 
front and rear racks?  Of course there's the suspension and the cost 
difference...  I could just get the NWT and still have enough for a 
Pocket Rocket.  ;)
From bryan at bentrideronline.com  Mon Jul 31 07:51:03 2006
From: bryan at bentrideronline.com (Bryan Ball)
Date: Mon Jul 31 07:52:19 2006
Subject: [Yak] Trailer use?
Message-ID: <44CDFCB7.6080301@bentrideronline.com>

I used to have a "Mark I" Sat R Day recumbent with the trailer kit.  I 
used the trailer a couple of times but didn't seem that impressed with 
it.  But now I'm shopping for an upright BF and I've been browsing a lot 
of BF tour journals.  You guys two your trailers everywhere!  Did I miss 
something the first time around?  I have zero against trailers I just 
didn't think that the BF conversion was really equipped to handle really 
long distances. 

I'll be getting the kit regardless because it's great for getting to and 
from the airport.  I used to stay in hotels the first and last night of 
a tour and it worked really well for that.  I would ride it to the hotel 
with the trailer, transfer to my panniers and leave the suitcase there 
while I was touring.  Then just stay in the same place on the last night 
and get it then.  Of course this would be out if it wasn't a loop.
From alex at phred.org  Mon Jul 31 09:53:31 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Mon Jul 31 09:53:55 2006
Subject: [Yak] Speiclaized Nimbus, conti contact, Marathon Racer, primo 1.5
In-Reply-To: <44CDF317.3040703@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <44CDC496.5020409@axelrod.plus.com> <44CDF28D.30700@sbcglobal.net>
	<44CDF317.3040703@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <20060731075042.K66674@phred.org>

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006, Andy Heath wrote:
> Ted Campbell wrote:
>> Have you tried the Tioga Comp Pool 20x1.75 tire?
>
> can't get them.
> out of stock everywhere.

I might have some lightly used ones to sell.  They'd be the original
Japanese made model with beige sidewalls.

>> There's also the Avocet FasGrip Freestyle 20x1.75 tire. I haven't used
>> it but I think there's someone on the YAK list who thinks a lot about them.
>
> ditto.

I like this _much_ better than the Tioga Comp Pool.  The Comp Pool has
a thicker tread in the center while the Avocet is perfectly round. 
The Comp Pool corners terribly while the Avocet corners wonderfully. 
The Avocet feels faster to me, but I haven't done any testing.  The
Avocet was not included in the Greenspeed tests that found the Comp
Pool to be faster than the competition (and those tests were looking
at the Japanese Comp Pool, not the current model which is a little
different).

I run the Avocet Freestyle Fasgrip when riding mostly on pavement and
run Schwable Marathon when riding mostly on dirt roads.  This is true
for pretty much all of my bicycles no matter what the wheel size is.

alex
From alex at phred.org  Mon Jul 31 09:55:22 2006
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Mon Jul 31 09:55:32 2006
Subject: [Yak] Trailer use?
In-Reply-To: <44CDFCB7.6080301@bentrideronline.com>
References: <44CDFCB7.6080301@bentrideronline.com>
Message-ID: <20060731075418.A66674@phred.org>

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006, Bryan Ball wrote:
> I used to have a "Mark I" Sat R Day recumbent with the trailer kit.  I used 
> the trailer a couple of times but didn't seem that impressed with it.  But 
> now I'm shopping for an upright BF and I've been browsing a lot of BF tour 
> journals.  You guys two your trailers everywhere!  Did I miss something the 
> first time around?

I use front panniers and a rear saddlebag when touring with my Bike
Friday.  I prefer this setup to trailers, it is lighter, more compact,
and has lower rolling resistance.  The only downside is finding somewhere
to keep the suitcase, but for loop tours this is typically not a 
problem.

alex
From goltermann at comcast.net  Mon Jul 31 10:07:03 2006
From: goltermann at comcast.net (Wilbur Goltermann Jr.)
Date: Mon Jul 31 10:07:14 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: Yak Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33
In-Reply-To: <20060731145405.E9D76194354@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060731145405.E9D76194354@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <06920412-88D2-48F3-B5AC-FAAAF451B820@comcast.net>

Bryan,

I'm curious about more specifics regarding your experiences with  
these tires.  I'm using the higher pressure tires with the "arrow  
shaped" tread.  What problems, exactly, have you experienced?

I had a thorn flat the other day, and when I replaced the tube, I got  
pinch flats (four in a row) regardless of how careful I was to be  
sure that the tube was free of the tire bead before inflating.  The  
only solution - change both the tire and the tube.

Thanks for any information you can provide.

Sincerely,




Wilbur Goltermann

On Jul 31, 2006, at 8:54 AM, yak-request@bikefriday.com wrote:
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 18:50:24 -0400
> From: Bryan Ball <bryan@bentrideronline.com>
> Subject: [Yak] Stelvios
> To: yak@bikefriday.com
> Message-ID: <44CD37B0.8090908@bentrideronline.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> In my recumbent experience, I've found that it's best to run the 406
> Stelvios right at 100 psi and NO MORE.  They don't seem to handle the
> higher pressures as well.  The 451 version seems to be a bit better.
> And the newer Stelvios with the "straight" center tread are much  
> better
> than the ones with the "arrow shaped" tread.

From rptolley at net.bluemoon.net  Mon Jul 31 10:25:25 2006
From: rptolley at net.bluemoon.net (rptolley)
Date: Mon Jul 31 10:26:16 2006
Subject: [Yak] Cyclo-computer for tandem
Message-ID: <001501c6b4b5$a69ac940$4c54c840@insp1150>

Hi to all you people with great ideas,

My problem is to find a way to install a cyclo-computer for the stoker (my wife) on our five year old "Tandem Traveller XL (451).  If the front wheel is used for the sender then the wire needs to six feet in length;  the rear wheel, then six feet six inches.  I don't think a wireless device will work.  The one wireless cyclo-computer I have uses a direct line of sight arrangement to activate it.   However my experience is limited.

About ten years ago I install what I described above on a Santana, but it was long ago enuf for me to forget how it was done.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanx,  Rodney Tolley
From sgoldenb at calpoly.edu  Mon Jul 31 10:37:52 2006
From: sgoldenb at calpoly.edu (Stu Goldenberg)
Date: Mon Jul 31 10:36:23 2006
Subject: [Yak] Coast Starlight TRAIN
In-Reply-To: <20060731145405.38EED194355@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060731145405.38EED194355@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <44CE23D0.4070602@calpoly.edu>

The Coast Starlight TRAIN runs between Seattle and Los Angeles.  It also 
has a baggage car.  For cyclists, in the past, this required that your 
bicycle be boxed.  (I don't know the current requirements regarding 
boxing bicycles.)  If you haven't used a train provided box, you should 
know that what is required (besides a fee) is to remove the pedals and 
turn the handlebars, then you roll your bike into the box.  Not all 
stations have tape, so check first or bring your own.  They also do not 
have tools for pedal removal or handlebar turning.  For tandems, you can 
tape two boxes together or make the box longer with a box from a bicycle 
shop and some tape and box cutter.

-- 
Stu Goldenberg                                  

From goltermann at comcast.net  Mon Jul 31 12:17:59 2006
From: goltermann at comcast.net (Wilbur Goltermann Jr.)
Date: Mon Jul 31 12:18:18 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: Cyclo-computer for tandem
In-Reply-To: <20060731170007.D151B19426A@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060731170007.D151B19426A@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <F38166AA-0B22-446B-92AD-8689E154605E@comcast.net>

Rodney,

The longest transmission distance I have found on a wireless computer  
is a Sigma BC 1106 DTS and it only provides a 30" distance.  I use  
one on my new SatRDay, and found that both the transmitter and  
receiver must be mounted on the right side of the bike; if mounted on  
the left, the recumbent boom is directly in the transmission path and  
I'm sure all of that aluminum interferes with the signal.

Wilbur

> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:25:25 -0400
> From: "rptolley" <rptolley@net.bluemoon.net>
> Subject: [Yak] Cyclo-computer for tandem
> To: "Friday Bike" <yak@bikefriday.com>
> Message-ID: <001501c6b4b5$a69ac940$4c54c840@insp1150>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi to all you people with great ideas,
>
> My problem is to find a way to install a cyclo-computer for the  
> stoker (my wife) on our five year old "Tandem Traveller XL (451).   
> If the front wheel is used for the sender then the wire needs to  
> six feet in length;  the rear wheel, then six feet six inches.  I  
> don't think a wireless device will work.  The one wireless cyclo- 
> computer I have uses a direct line of sight arrangement to activate  
> it.   However my experience is limited.
>
> About ten years ago I install what I described above on a Santana,  
> but it was long ago enuf for me to forget how it was done.
>
> Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanx,  Rodney Tolley

From goltermann at comcast.net  Mon Jul 31 12:26:26 2006
From: goltermann at comcast.net (Wilbur Goltermann Jr.)
Date: Mon Jul 31 12:26:36 2006
Subject: [Yak] Coast Starlight TRAIN
In-Reply-To: <20060731170007.D151B19426A@server1.bikefriday.com>
References: <20060731170007.D151B19426A@server1.bikefriday.com>
Message-ID: <86FB4036-D990-42F2-9A6F-65430A87945E@comcast.net>

Hi,

Some Amtrak trains have provisions for carrying unboxed bicycles.   
Check the Amtrak website for the trains between Eugene and Seattle.   
If I recall, many of the commuter trains have this capability, which  
would include all trains running from Eugene to Seattle, with the  
exception of the Coast Starlight.

If nothing else, you could carry the bicycle packed in the travel  
trailer onboard a passenger car by yourself.  If you wish to box it  
and check it as baggage, then there is another fact of which to be  
aware:  Some stations on Amtrak are for passenger pick-up/drop-off  
only and do not provide for baggage check.  I recall that Eugene  
provides baggage check, but I don't know about your destination station.

Wilbur Goltermann

> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:37:52 -0700
> From: Stu Goldenberg <sgoldenb@calpoly.edu>
> Subject: [Yak] Coast Starlight TRAIN
> To: yak@bikefriday.com
> Message-ID: <44CE23D0.4070602@calpoly.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> The Coast Starlight TRAIN runs between Seattle and Los Angeles.  It  
> also
> has a baggage car.  For cyclists, in the past, this required that your
> bicycle be boxed.  (I don't know the current requirements regarding
> boxing bicycles.)  If you haven't used a train provided box, you  
> should
> know that what is required (besides a fee) is to remove the pedals and
> turn the handlebars, then you roll your bike into the box.  Not all
> stations have tape, so check first or bring your own.  They also do  
> not
> have tools for pedal removal or handlebar turning.  For tandems,  
> you can
> tape two boxes together or make the box longer with a box from a  
> bicycle
> shop and some tape and box cutter.
>
> -- 
> Stu Goldenberg

From roamic at gmail.com  Mon Jul 31 12:57:21 2006
From: roamic at gmail.com (Robert Immler)
Date: Mon Jul 31 12:57:28 2006
Subject: [Yak] Anybody from this list?
Message-ID: <16fac340607311057k6e08251djb7d47043daba5109@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Last Friday I was riding from Bonner's Ferry, ID to Spokane, WA.



Just past Priest River, ID, I saw a group of about 7 cyclists heading in the
other direction. About 5 were pulling trailers. 2, one a BF, were carrying
full panniers.

Just curious if the BF person was on this list?







-- 
Bob Immler
_____________________
From trevay at massbike.org  Mon Jul 31 13:06:52 2006
From: trevay at massbike.org (Tom Revay)
Date: Mon Jul 31 13:07:21 2006
Subject: [Yak] Seized valve stem
Message-ID: <200607311406520526.00E7F365@localhost>

This morning, on the way to work, I had a flat.  No big deal, usually, except today, I discovered that my the valve of my brass-valved inner tube had corroded into and seized with my aluminum rim.  

As I understand it, this kind of seizing usually happens between steel and aluminum, but I guess it can happen with brass, too.

I've noticed that many inner tubes have a rubber boot that covers the lower part of the stem, which is the part that touches the rim hole.  These tubes, which were supplied by Bike Friday, do not.  I think the reason why I never had this problem before results from generally using the booted-valve tubes.  Does anyone have a source for these for 406 wheels?

Oh -- I fixed my rear fender by drilling-out the rivets, as suggested here, and then obtaining a mountain bike rack's center stainless steel center strap that ordinarily connects the rack to a bolt on the rear brake bridge.  So far, it appears to well as the lone support for my rear fender, mimicking the function of the cast aluminum bracket on the original spec BF fenders.

Tom Revay
NWT #12440 Flag Red 
... who was glad to have a patch kit -- with liquid glue, not all dried-out as usual! -- as well as a spare tube, when this problem was discovered.
From bicycleflyer at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 31 13:44:12 2006
From: bicycleflyer at yahoo.com (Paul Patterson)
Date: Mon Jul 31 13:46:45 2006
Subject: [Yak] computer suggestion for tandem (or any BF)
Message-ID: <20060731184412.73233.qmail@web52112.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

My suggestion is to do away with wires and sending units altogether and go with a GPS based system. This way you can pack/unpack the bike quickly and not worry about wires or fork mounted sensors breaking off. 

I use the Garmin forerunner 101. Bought mine on eBay for about 75.00 USD which is about the same, if not a little cheaper than some wireless units. In addition you don't have to worry about wheel sizing. The 101 uses two AAA batteries and I get about 13 hours of use from a set. If you want to spend a bit more money then the 201 and 301 versions use a rechargeable battery. The 301 includes a HRM if that interests you. For a lot more money (about 300 USD) there is the Garmin Edge. 

You can go to Garmin's website for more information and download free user manuals. I also have pics of the forerunner mounted to my bike if you are interested.

Paul in Cincy

 		
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1?/min.
From Jedarr at aol.com  Mon Jul 31 18:43:11 2006
From: Jedarr at aol.com (Jedarr@aol.com)
Date: Mon Jul 31 18:43:35 2006
Subject: [Yak] Re: Yak Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33
Message-ID: <538.245b0c80.31ffef8f@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 7/31/2006 7:54:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
yak-request@bikefriday.com writes:

I used  to have a "Mark I" Sat R Day recumbent with the trailer kit.  I 
used  the trailer a couple of times but didn't seem that impressed with  
it.  But now I'm shopping for an upright BF and I've been browsing a  lot 
of BF tour journals.  You guys two your trailers  everywhere!  Did I miss 
something the first time around?  I have  zero against trailers I just 
didn't think that the BF conversion was  really equipped to handle really 
long distances.  



I am not sure what you mean by "equipped to handle really long  distances."   
I have taken two trips of 1,200+ miles each with the  SatRDay with trailer.   
The trailer does add some weight you don't get  with panniers, but unless 
speed is your issue it certainly "handles" long  distances.
 
It is true that, to make it work with camping I use two very small  sleeping 
bags that I use together on the cold nights, not a single bulky  sleeping bag, 
but I bought those bags for the panniers I used on my first  long tour (with 
a Rans V2).  They just happen to work very well in the  suitcase/trailer.
 
It is also true that the flexible couple on my Friday  trailer nearly snapped 
on the last trip, but through by own  stupidity/inattention, I have flipped 
the trailer twice - on a very big  dirt clod and a bike path post receptacle.  
I don't think the couple is  designed for the way I treated it.  And Bike 
Friday overnight shipped me a  replacement during the tour.
 
Jack Darr
_http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/journal/jedarr2006_ 
(http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/journal/jedarr2006) 
From law at dasherm.com  Mon Jul 31 21:15:56 2006
From: law at dasherm.com (David Sherman)
Date: Mon Jul 31 21:16:52 2006
Subject: [Yak] Coast Starlight TRAIN
In-Reply-To: <86FB4036-D990-42F2-9A6F-65430A87945E@comcast.net>
References: <20060731170007.D151B19426A@server1.bikefriday.com>
	<86FB4036-D990-42F2-9A6F-65430A87945E@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C275A0C5-89B3-4B4F-A317-217E391FFC21@dasherm.com>

Amtrak's policy on folding bikes....
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Copy/ 
Title_Image_Copy_Page&cid=1080080554487&c=am2Copy&ssid=43
***

Folding Bikes Brought Aboard as Carry-On Baggage

Folding bicycles may be brought aboard certain passenger cars as  
carry-on baggage. Only true folding bicycles (bicycles specifically  
designed to fold up into a compact assembly) are acceptable.  
Generally, these bikes have frame latches allowing the frame to be  
collapsed, and small wheels. Regular bikes of any size, with or  
without wheels, are not considered folding bikes, and may not be  
stored as folding bikes aboard trains.

You must fold up your folding bicycle before boarding the train. You  
may store the bike only in luggage storage areas at the end of the  
car (or, in Superliners, on the lower level). You may not store bikes  
in overhead racks.

***
Interesting, no?

On Jul 31, 2006, at 10:26 AM, Wilbur Goltermann Jr. wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Some Amtrak trains have provisions for carrying unboxed bicycles.   
> Check the Amtrak website for the trains between Eugene and  
> Seattle.  If I recall, many of the commuter trains have this  
> capability, which would include all trains running from Eugene to  
> Seattle, with the exception of the Coast Starlight.
>
> If nothing else, you could carry the bicycle packed in the travel  
> trailer onboard a passenger car by yourself.  If you wish to box it  
> and check it as baggage, then there is another fact of which to be  
> aware:  Some stations on Amtrak are for passenger pick-up/drop-off  
> only and do not provide for baggage check.  I recall that Eugene  
> provides baggage check, but I don't know about your destination  
> station.
>
> Wilbur Goltermann

From jsallen at bikexprt.com  Mon Jul 31 14:59:17 2006
From: jsallen at bikexprt.com (John Allen)
Date: Wed Aug  2 08:17:54 2006
Subject: [Yak] computer suggestion for tandem (or any BF)
In-Reply-To: <20060731184412.73233.qmail@web52112.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060731184412.73233.qmail@web52112.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP1254C69D24EDBA7E5B92738D520@CEZ.ICE>

At 14:44 7/31/2006, Paul Patterson wrote:


>I use the Garmin forerunner 101. Bought mine on eBay for about 75.00 
>USD which is about the same, if not a little cheaper than some 
>wireless units. In addition you don't have to worry about wheel 
>sizing. The 101 uses two AAA batteries and I get about 13 hours of 
>use from a set.

The GPS features are nice, but I'd find the short battery life (even 
with rechargeables) a serious annoyance compared with the year-long 
battery life of bicycle computers with wheel sensors.

There are wheel sensor sets with long cables to use on the rear wheel 
-- typically, used with indoor trainers. On the BF tandems which come 
apart rather than only folding, you could cut the cable and install a 
plug and socket. Or you could do this to insert an additional length 
of cable in a front-wheel sensor set.  Or you could make the sensor 
or bracket easy to remove and store. I wouldn't be surprised if BF 
has out-of-the-box solutions.