[Yak] Bike Fit Advice

[Reed Kennedy]

Hm, interesting Francine! Thanks for the input.

One question, though: Do you have any idea what the weight difference
is between the fixed stem and the adjustable stem?

I'm far from a weight weenie, but my packed bike, suitcase, and
trailer are already at or above the 50lb weight limit for checked bags
on most airlines. I was hoping that the fixed stem might help me
there.

Cheers,
Reed

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Francine B.Sparks
<francine at distinctivetalent.com> wrote:
> I recommend getting the BF adjustable stem, even after using the fit stem. I
> got a fixed stem for my Crusoe after using the fit stem for a long time to
> make absolutely sure I was getting correct size.  Now I have decided that
> the fixed stem on my Crusoe is slightly too low. I have a NWT for touring,
> with an adjustable stem. I have changed the height several times and will
> probably continue to do so. Sometimes I think it has to do with the kind of
> riding I am doing. I am very glad to have the adjustment.
>
> Francine B. Sparks, ----------------------- Original Message
> -----------------------
>
> From: <yak-request at bikefriday.com>
> To: <yak at bikefriday.com>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:00:12 -0400
> Subject: Yak Digest, Vol 74, Issue 25
>
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1.  Bike Fit: Advice? (Reed Kennedy)
>    2. Re:  Bike Fit: Advice? (Geof Gee)
>    3.  Bike Fit: Advice?  (eddie flayer)
>    4. Re:  Bike Fit: Advice? (John S. Allen)
>    5.  Friction on a Tikit - what sort of handlebars are those? (DKD)
>    6. Re:  Bike Fit: Advice? (Andy Heath)
>    7. Re:  Bike Fit: Advice? (Brian Ogilvie)
>    8. Re:  Bike Fit: Advice? (Reed Kennedy)
>    9. Re:  Bike Fit: Advice? (Reed Kennedy)
>   10. Re:  Bike Fit: Advice? (Reed Kennedy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:07:46 -0700
> From: Reed Kennedy <reed at notfine.com>
> Subject: [Yak] Bike Fit: Advice?
> To: YAK <Yak at bikefriday.com>
> Message-ID:
>         <AANLkTim2tnrp83j5i8QaRnZbjnPN77cKLePzAW-zR7pV at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> After five years of wanting and a month and a half of waiting, I was
> thrilled to receive my Bike Friday New World Tourist Sport yesterday!
>
> I purchased it with the fit stem option to try to find my perfect
> riding position once and for all.
>
> I'm no stranger to bikes (I've built 8 or so from parts, done AIDS
> ride, etc) and know more or less what I like.
>
> But now, I must say, I'm a bit overwhelmed with options. It's
> infinitely adjustable, after all.
>
> Does anyone out there have advice on how to tell when the bars are at
> just the right height, or equally useful, how to know when they are
> too high or too low?
>
> How about reach? What are tell-tale signs I should move them closer?
> Or push them further away?
>
> (For the curious, I'm 6'4 and horribly inflexible. I generally ride
> with the bars around seat height, and am looking to use this NWT for
> distance touring. It's built up with 44cm drop bars and bar-end
> shifters.)
>
> I'm tempted to just head over to Rivendell and ask Grant & Co for
> advice, but I feel a bit sheepish showing up on a not-theirs bike and
> asking for help. If anyone has another bike fit expert in the SF Bay
> Area that they'd recommend, please share!
>
> And now, off to ride the bike!
>
> Reed
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:36:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Geof Gee <geoffreygee at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yak] Bike Fit: Advice?
> To: Reed Kennedy <reed at notfine.com>, YAK <Yak at bikefriday.com>
> Message-ID: <394741.85494.qm at web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Yikes!  Lots of resources on the issue.  I'd begin with Peter White's page
> ...
>
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
>
> There are a few sources for what is optimal.  For example ...
>
> http://www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/F.I.S.T._Tri_bike_fit_system/Seat_height_21.html
>
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18545167
>
> Anyway, I think that you already know most of this ...
>
> Given that you now have this one bike with lots of flexibility I would stick
> with trial and error.  That is, try it a little higher and see whether you
> are
> more comfortable, faster, cool-looking, or whatever you are looking to
> improve.
>  Pain and discomfort are the traditional signals that something can be
> improved
> or that you need more conditioning.  Intense or acute pain is something to
> avoid
> like the plaque.
>
> -G
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
> Washington, DC  20037
>
>
> "Growing up is a terribly hard thing to do.  It is much easier to skip it
> and go
> from one childhood to another."  F.S.F.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Reed Kennedy <reed at notfine.com>
> To: YAK <Yak at bikefriday.com>
> Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 5:07:46 PM
> Subject: [Yak] Bike Fit: Advice?
>
> After five years of wanting and a month and a half of waiting, I was
> thrilled to receive my Bike Friday New World Tourist Sport yesterday!
>
> I purchased it with the fit stem option to try to find my perfect
> riding position once and for all.
>
> I'm no stranger to bikes (I've built 8 or so from parts, done AIDS
> ride, etc) and know more or less what I like.
>
> But now, I must say, I'm a bit overwhelmed with options. It's
> infinitely adjustable, after all.
>
> Does anyone out there have advice on how to tell when the bars are at
> just the right height, or equally useful, how to know when they are
> too high or too low?
>
> How about reach? What are tell-tale signs I should move them closer?
> Or push them further away?
>
> (For the curious, I'm 6'4 and horribly inflexible. I generally ride
> with the bars around seat height, and am looking to use this NWT for
> distance touring. It's built up with 44cm drop bars and bar-end
> shifters.)
>
> I'm tempted to just head over to Rivendell and ask Grant & Co for
> advice, but I feel a bit sheepish showing up on a not-theirs bike and
> asking for help. If anyone has another bike fit expert in the SF Bay
> Area that they'd recommend, please share!
>
> And now, off to ride the bike!
>
> Reed
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak at bikefriday.com
> http://store.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:52:20 -0700
> From: eddie flayer <eddie.flayer at att.net>
> Subject: [Yak] Bike Fit: Advice?
> To: yak at bikefriday.com
> Message-ID: <878030.33630.qm at smtp104.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> I am sort of curious if you have another bike that fits well for you,
> why you would not take the normal contact point measurements from
> that bike and transfer the dimensions over to  your Bike Friday.
>
> You could even use a plumb line on your existing bike and figure out
> how far your saddle is behind the center of your crank.
>
> And once your saddle in that same position on your BF your could
> measure front tip of saddle to center of the handlebar clamp.  And
> then get a stem for the BF that equals that distance.
>
> All that being said, BF's have different geometry and still might
> feel a bit different when riding.  But the method above should get
> you really close to comfy on the BF.
>
> Eddie
> Berkeley
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:48:58 -0400
> From: "John S. Allen" <jsallen at bikexprt.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yak] Bike Fit: Advice?
> To: Reed Kennedy <reed at notfine.com>, YAK <Yak at bikefriday.com>
> Message-ID: <20100726033654.E5FAC194052 at server1.bikefriday.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 05:07 PM 7/25/2010, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
>>Does anyone out there have advice on how to tell when the bars are at
>>just the right height, or equally useful, how to know when they are
>>too high or too low?
>>
>>How about reach? What are tell-tale signs I should move them closer?
>>Or push them further away?
>>
>>(For the curious, I'm 6'4 and horribly inflexible. I generally ride
>>with the bars around seat height, and am looking to use this NWT for
>>distance touring. It's built up with 44cm drop bars and bar-end
>>shifters.)
>
> To experiment: Assuming that you have a saddle, pedals and cranks
> that work for you, First thing is to  the handlebars back so they
> don't force you to slide froward, and puladjust the saddle position
> up and down, fore and aft and tilt until pedaling is comfortable. You
> may find yourself sliding the saddle forward by a cm or two if you
> get to pedaling harder.
>
> Then the handlebars, for comfortable reach to the brake levers with
> arms slightly bent. the fit stem is a big help here.
>
> Up to this point, a professional fitting can help you get adjustments
> close to what they will finally be.
>
> Once you are getting "dialed in", you will fell small changes and
> make adjustments accordingly.
>
> John S. Allen
>
> jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
>
> http://bikexprt.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:47:23 -0500
> From: DKD <doyle.dk at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Yak] Friction on a Tikit - what sort of handlebars are
>         those?
> To: yak at bikefriday.com
> Message-ID: <3A3E3189-0DFD-44F7-BAEE-3077AA01AFF8 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> HI
> I saw your post on the Yak regarding your shifter but I was wondering
> what sort of handlebars are you using? They look like something I'd
> like to try
> Thanks
> Dawn
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:24:58 +0100
> From: Andy Heath <cycling at axelrod.plus.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yak] Bike Fit: Advice?
> To: eddie flayer <eddie.flayer at att.net>
> Cc: "yak at bikefriday.com" <yak at bikefriday.com>
> Message-ID: <73F38A48-15EF-4D06-A1EA-4930D45907AE at axelrod.plus.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> I did exactly that and have.been comfortable on the bike for 10 years
>
> Andy
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 26 Jul 2010, at 01:52, eddie flayer <eddie.flayer at att.net> wrote:
>
>> I am sort of curious if you have another bike that fits well for you, why
>> you would not take the normal contact point measurements from that bike and
>> transfer the dimensions over to  your Bike Friday.
>>
>> You could even use a plumb line on your existing bike and figure out how
>> far your saddle is behind the center of your crank.
>>
>> And once your saddle in that same position on your BF your could measure
>> front tip of saddle to center of the handlebar clamp.  And then get a stem
>> for the BF that equals that distance.
>>
>> All that being said, BF's have different geometry and still might feel a
>> bit different when riding.  But the method above should get you really close
>> to comfy on the BF.
>>
>> Eddie
>> Berkeley
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yak mailing list
>> Yak at bikefriday.com
>> http://store.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:40:56 +0100
> From: Brian Ogilvie <bwogilvie at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yak] Bike Fit: Advice?
> To: YAK <yak at bikefriday.com>
> Message-ID:
>         <AANLkTiksvM6-Nzkr9MDyGLXNRjjrVRgBgeutYDx8Wv46 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I did what Eddie suggests when I ordered my New World Tourist last
> spring. What I did not take into account is that the handlebars and
> brake levers I ordered for my NWT (Nitto Randonneurs and the Tektro
> RL520 aero levers for linear pull brakes), combined, make the reach to
> the hoods about an inch longer than on my touring bike. I ended up
> just raising the bars a little higher than planned; I might eventually
> get a shorter stem.
>
> Lesson: if you are getting different bars or brake levers (for drop
> bars) than your reference bike, check the dimensions!
>
> Brian
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 1:52 AM, eddie flayer <eddie.flayer at att.net> wrote:
>> I am sort of curious if you have another bike that fits well for you, why
>> you would not take the normal contact point measurements from that bike
>> and
>> transfer the dimensions over to  your Bike Friday.
>
> --
> Brian W. Ogilvie <bwogilvie at gmail.com>
> Hadley, Massachusetts, USA
> http://homepage.mac.com/brianogilvie/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:32:53 -0700
> From: Reed Kennedy <reed at notfine.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yak] Bike Fit: Advice?
> To: Geof Gee <geoffreygee at yahoo.com>
> Cc: YAK <Yak at bikefriday.com>
> Message-ID:
>         <AANLkTi=ncvzoJRzvOdokahGTVGt8NMpBS3b2O_F4S-YR at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks Geof! I had read Peter White's fitting article years and years
> ago, but reading it over again did me worlds of good.
>
> For my purposes, that's the best fit information I've seen on the
> internet. Great stuff!
>
> You and Peter both make a good point: You can have someone tell you
> what to do, but until you try it and see how it feels that "official
> number" matters little.
>
> I guess I'm just a little commitment-phobic: Right now I have infinite
> adjustment, and when I sent the stem back and get the custom one from
> BF I'll have no adjustment at all! I want to be extra certain I get it
> right.
>
> I spent yesterday futzing around with it, and after finding a couple
> positions that really didn't work I think I'm now getting pretty
> close.
>
> Cheers,
> Reed
>
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Geof Gee <geoffreygee at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Yikes!  Lots of resources on the issue.  I'd begin with Peter White's page
>> ...
>>
>> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
>>
>> There are a few sources for what is optimal.  For example ...
>>
>>
>> http://www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/F.I.S.T._Tri_bike_fit_system/Seat_height_21.html
>>
>>
>> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18545167
>>
>> Anyway, I think that you already know most of this ...
>>
>> Given that you now have this one bike with lots of flexibility I would
>> stick
>> with trial and error.  That is, try it a little higher and see whether you
>> are
>> more comfortable, faster, cool-looking, or whatever you are looking to
>> improve.
>>  Pain and discomfort are the traditional signals that something can be
>> improved
>> or that you need more conditioning.  Intense or acute pain is something to
>> avoid
>> like the plaque.
>>
>> -G
>>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>
>>
>> Washington, DC  20037
>>
>>
>> "Growing up is a terribly hard thing to do.  It is much easier to skip it
>> and go
>> from one childhood to another."  F.S.F.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Reed Kennedy <reed at notfine.com>
>> To: YAK <Yak at bikefriday.com>
>> Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 5:07:46 PM
>> Subject: [Yak] Bike Fit: Advice?
>>
>> After five years of wanting and a month and a half of waiting, I was
>> thrilled to receive my Bike Friday New World Tourist Sport yesterday!
>>
>> I purchased it with the fit stem option to try to find my perfect
>> riding position once and for all.
>>
>> I'm no stranger to bikes (I've built 8 or so from parts, done AIDS
>> ride, etc) and know more or less what I like.
>>
>> But now, I must say, I'm a bit overwhelmed with options. It's
>> infinitely adjustable, after all.
>>
>> Does anyone out there have advice on how to tell when the bars are at
>> just the right height, or equally useful, how to know when they are
>> too high or too low?
>>
>> How about reach? What are tell-tale signs I should move them closer?
>> Or push them further away?
>>
>> (For the curious, I'm 6'4 and horribly inflexible. I generally ride
>> with the bars around seat height, and am looking to use this NWT for
>> distance touring. It's built up with 44cm drop bars and bar-end
>> shifters.)
>>
>> I'm tempted to just head over to Rivendell and ask Grant & Co for
>> advice, but I feel a bit sheepish showing up on a not-theirs bike and
>> asking for help. If anyone has another bike fit expert in the SF Bay
>> Area that they'd recommend, please share!
>>
>> And now, off to ride the bike!
>>
>> Reed
>> _______________________________________________
>> Yak mailing list
>> Yak at bikefriday.com
>> http://store.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:43:33 -0700
> From: Reed Kennedy <reed at notfine.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yak] Bike Fit: Advice?
> To: eddie flayer <eddie.flayer at att.net>
> Cc: yak at bikefriday.com
> Message-ID:
>         <AANLkTik5McF+B8C1EA7e0MOebdNO4eMHnHnE+PjpJC_h at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 5:52 PM, eddie flayer <eddie.flayer at att.net> wrote:
>> I am sort of curious if you have another bike that fits well for you, why
>> you would not take the normal contact point measurements from that bike
>> and
>> transfer the dimensions over to  your Bike Friday.
>
> Well, a couple reasons:
>
> First, my main bike at the moment is a quasi-aggressive road bike. I
> want the Bike Friday to be set up as a touring bike and somewhat more
> comfort oriented. (I also have a flat bared fix gear, but those
> dimensions seem even less relevant.)
>
> Second, while I'm happy with the road bike, I don't feel the fit is
> perfect. Part of the reason I went for the fit stem / ultralight
> custom stem option was that it gives me the chance to experiment and
> learn more about my ideal fit. Except that now I'm a bit overwhelmed
> with options. ::grin::
>
> I do appreciate the suggestion, though! I'd been kind of shooting in
> the dark, figuring that my touring position would be radically
> different from my road position. After reading your post I realized
> that my road bike felt better than anything I'd figured out for the
> Bike Friday so far, so I did transfer the dimensions over as you said,
> and then went for a ride.
>
> In the end I ended up changing things a good bit, with the bars
> probably an inch higher and a bit closer in, but having a point of
> reference gave me somewhere to work from, rather than just guessing.
> I've now got a position I'm pretty happy with.
>
> I'm a little embarrassed I didn't do this at the start now! I'm glad I
> posted asking for suggestions.
>
> I don't have any long trips planned for several months, so I think I'm
> going to keep the fit stem for a while. Whenever I realize I haven't
> changed it in the last month then I'll go ahead and send it in.
>
> Big thanks to Eddie and everyone who has posted offering feedback and
> advice. I'm feeling much better on the bike (and about this process)
> now!
>
> Cheers,
> Reed
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:50:30 -0700
> From: Reed Kennedy <reed at notfine.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yak] Bike Fit: Advice?
> To: "John S. Allen" <jsallen at bikexprt.com>
> Cc: YAK <Yak at bikefriday.com>
> Message-ID:
>         <AANLkTinkcvxZ65dRn8outHfXWvy2_9hgDrBTD856rsD8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 6:48 PM, John S. Allen <jsallen at bikexprt.com> wrote:
>> To experiment: Assuming that you have a saddle, pedals and cranks that
>> work
>> for you, First thing is to  the handlebars back so they don't force you to
>> slide froward, and puladjust the saddle position up and down, fore and aft
>> and tilt until pedaling is comfortable. You may find yourself sliding the
>> saddle forward by a cm or two if you get to pedaling harder.
>
> Good advice, John! But after reading your suggestions and Peter
> White's fit page I'm left wondering about fore-aft saddle adjustment.
>
> I ride Brooks saddles on all my bikes (a Professional in this case)
> and they have notoriously short rails. The seatpost Bike Friday
> provided doesn't seem to have much setback, so I just slammed my
> saddle all the way back on the rails and assumed that would do pretty
> well.
>
> In fact, I've done this on all my bikes. I've never thought much about
> saddle placement. At some point I got the idea (probably from Grant at
> Rivendell or Sheldon Brown) that all the way back is good for a Brooks
> so I simply went with it.
>
> Any suggestions on how I can tell if it's too far back and I should
> slide it forward?
>
> Cheers,
> Reed
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak at bikefriday.com
> http://store.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
>
>
> End of Yak Digest, Vol 74, Issue 25
> ***********************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> Yak mailing list
> Yak at bikefriday.com
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>
>